Hoagland and Wilcock interview on Coast to Coast AM
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5-15-2004

AB: Okay. All right. I’ve got it. Okay. Richard, then, the people who did it on Mars, and the people who did it on Earth, both were unsuccessful. So--

DW: Well, maybe and maybe not. What if most of these pyramids were built after something had already happened, and by building them they actually stabilized things and got [the Earth] back to working order a lot faster than otherwise would have happened?

RH: That’s a viable idea. A very viable idea.

AB: A possibility, I suppose.

DW: But see, they learned about it too late … whereas we know about it now.

RH: Or, they were prevented [from doing it earlier] by all the nonsense and chicanery that’s going on now, where you keep killing people off who try to introduce the way physics really works. Remember [if the Physics of] a hundred years ago [had never been politically diverted] Art, we wouldn’t be having the same conversation; we would be surrounded by this technology -- this Physics, this Knowledge … and there would be ample time to do major, huge, important things to “even out the music” … so the planet does not flip.

DW: You know, let me kick in one thing. Bush just asked for 24 billion dollars for us to continue fighting this war in Iraq. Our rough guesstimate calculations are that for 150 million, which is only a percentage of one billion, we could build a worldwide network of these pyramids -- that would increase the production of these oil wells, purify water for people who don’t have sanitation right now, [and] do things such as reducing the overall amount of earthquake activity.

AB: David, can you prove it on scale?

DW: Sure! The Russians have done it!

RH: The Russians already demonstrated it. Go to David’s website -- I’m sure there’s a link there -- you can read the papers yourself. In the mainstream Soviet literature, they did it. They’ve been doing a lot of things that the West doesn’t “know about.”

AB: I know. I know that’s true. And you’re saying the Russians built pyramids over oil wells…

RH: Over old, defunct oil wells.

AB: Uh huh…

RH: And increased their production by twenty to thirty percent.

DW: Thirty percent! [The fuel crisis of the 1970s was due to a 7% worldwide shortage.]

AB: Through thinning the viscosity, right?

DW: Yeah. [The pyramids also reduced the amount of unwanted material in the crude oil, such as gums, wax and pyrobitumen.]

AB: So that production increased, and they got just that much more out of it.

RH: Yeah, one of the side effects is [that the pyramid technology] changes molecular viscosities. There are umpteen experiments in labs all over the world. I mean, if we were to go and do the same thing for physics and chemistry that we’re trying to do for planetary science in this [upcoming] three-part [“Interplanetary”] paper-- we’d have the work for the next decade cut out for us! It’s just, Art, that no one has assembled this data into a coherent, different paradigm picture of what’s really going on. We’re stuck with some very old ideas. And my question -- and this is going to sound almost treasonous—is, are we stuck with this through ignorance … or … because somebody wants a lot of people to die!?

DW: Well, it’s worth thinking about.

AB: I suppose it is, I…

RH: You remember years ago, a book came out called Alternative 3.

AB: Yes.

RH: And initially I dismissed it as pure bunk.

AB/DW: Yes.

RH: And I’m sure you did too. The closer we get to this date [2012], and the more I learn and the more I see going on, and the more the Physics comes together … and the predictive data -- you know, the dots all match up -- I’m wondering now if that [Alternative 3] was the prescription for what a few “in the know” are planning to do … while the rest of us basically, you know, kiss our you-know-what goodbye?

DW: Well, I had somebody from black ops tell me that the so-called astronaut named Grodin [in Alternative 3] was actually an anagram for Gordon, and we’re not talking about the guy whose first name is Gordon, we’re talking about an astronaut whose last name was Gordon, and that a lot of that stuff [in the book, and the BBC “documentary”] actually was true. What Alternative 3 said way back in the 70’s was that the whole solar system was going to be heating up, and “Mars would become a more viable place to live as a result.”

AB: Gentlemen, hold on. This is Alternative 3 for me! I’ve got to break. We’ve got the news coming up. Certainly talking of cosmic things this morning, aren’t we? What do you feel about it as you listen to all these different people, of all these different -- oh, what’s the right word -- all these different persuasions: remote viewers, the Hopi, intuitives – people like Richard C. Hoagland and David? We’ll be right back.

(Commercial Break)

AB: Geologically, I have no problem whatsoever believing that the magnitude of the changes that we’re discussing right now have occurred in the past. We have evidence of that; we just sort of put it up on the shelf and ignore it. But you really can’t. It did happen. I think most of us in the pit of our stomach know that it happened, and that it can happen again. Once again my guests, Richard C. Hoagland, David Wilcock. Gentlemen.

An email which I just happened to grab very quickly: “The program tonight seems to indicate that the size of the pyramid has the ability to focus the energy from the cosmos. If the fluid parameters of oil have changed, as demonstrated by what you said in Russia, imagine what would happen if the surface tension of biochemical reactions were changed? All reactions in our body require this surface tension, or contact with molecules, to cause biochemical reactions.” Jerry from Vista, California.

So, comments?

RH: David?

DW: Well, the pyramid power that we’re talking about goes well beyond simply technical things. When you start getting into biology science, it gets even more bizarre and interesting. Let me give you a couple examples which are really fascinating.

The first one was done by the Ivanovskii R&D Institute of Virology within the Russian Academy of Medical Science. Now, this is mainstream stuff. You gotta remember the Soviet Union, prior to 1991, was toe-to-toe with the US [technically].

AB: Sure.

DW: But then, when they collapsed, you have these scientists who are literally living on 30 dollars a month, who have the time and the incentive to do this pyramid research. So anyways, Klimenko and Nosik  from this Ivanovskii R&D Institute [studied] a drug called venoglobulin --which is a naturally occurring compound in a human being’s blood that fights viruses. When they diluted this drug down to 50 micrograms per milliliter, and stored it in the pyramid for a short time, it became three hundred percent more effective at killing viruses.

Another one which I find really fascinating came from the R&D Institute of Pediatrics, Obstetrics, and Gynecology, headed by A.G. Antonov. They took a solution of 40% glucose in distilled water and put it in the pyramid, and all they gave was one milliliter of this glucose to 20 different premature babies with compromised immune systems. The babies that were given this formula had their health increased to rapidly practical and normal levels, whereas the control group had no real change.

AB: God, these are incredible things you’re saying. So if these things are true, then why wouldn’t science in the West say, “Oh my God,” and “Let’s see if we can duplicate that experiment”?

RH: Well?--

DW: Money.

RH: --given that we’ve had fifteen years of “non-progress” in the so-called cold fusion area -- where we have a stunning experiment, with eminently world-class reputable scientists in Utah, with an astonishing support from the Congress (because I know Robert Roe enacted legislation to try to move to help them almost immediately).

How do I know this? Because I had a meeting with him on the Mars question [in 1989 – right after the Pons and Fleischman announcement]. He was the head of the House Science Committee. I had a meeting on Cydonia, and one of the things we discussed back then, in 1989, was cold fusion and how he was moving to get the [Science] Committee to help. Do you know what happened to Robert Roe? He was first drummed out of his House Chairmanship, he then was drummed out of the House itself … and [then] he … sideswiped and almost killed a woman and her little girl one dark night, because he was basically an alcoholic. He fell from the supreme science position in the US Congress … to a drunk -- because “something” intervened in his career, and what he wanted to do to help Pons and Fleischman, and to help me with Cydonia, redounded to his profound detriment.

You want to know why this stuff is not mainstream? There is a control mechanism. There is censorship. It is as Gene Mallove said, in his last editorial, “It is the evil … the invisible evil of science and politics, in the 21st century…”

AB: Why would the West, and modern science in the West, want to suppress something that could save all of humanity?

RH: How is science funded?

AB: By government…

RH: And where does government get its money?

AB: From us.

RH: It picks our pockets, right?

AB: Yeah.

RH: It decides what [are the] priorities, it decides what’s “nonsense” and “pseudo-science.” In order for a scientist to maintain a living, to put his kids through school, to pay for his car, to keep a roof over his head, he has to get grants. If the only trust you get a grant from is from agencies that tell you what is “acceptable and not acceptable,” you quickly learn to fall in line with what’s “acceptable.” Gene said, in our last conversation--

AB: But that’s not answering my question … that’s the business end of what you consider to be a conspiracy. My question was--

RH: But without “business” you have no “science” … anymore.

AB: But my question was, Richard, really, if we understood it to be of this magnitude, why would we be suppressing something--

RH: Who is “we,” Kemosabe?

AB: Well, whatever group you imagine to be doing this, would stop--

RH: How about the National Science Foundation? How about Science magazine? How about Nature?

AB: How about ‘em?

RH: They have what’s called -- Gene used to call it -- “sneer review” … where you basically can be attacked [anonymously, by other “scientists”]. In fact, let me get a specific--

AB: But my overall question is not being answered. Why would we want to block a technology?

RH: But we don’t! “We” are not in charge!

AB: I’m not, I don’t mean you, Richard, and you David. I mean us collectively.

RH: No. “We” -- the collective body of “Americans,” or, the collective body of the citizens of Italy or France or Germany -- we’re not in charge! “Somebody else” is, and they dictate our reality, they dictate the rules, they dictate the funding -- and those who do not go along pay awful prices … up to, and maybe including, the “ultimate price.”

AB: But if, “they,” in quotes -- whoever in the hell “they” are -- understood the magnitude of what’s going to occur around 2012--

RH: Who says “they” intend to be here when it “hits the fan?” That’s back to the Alternative 3 model.

DW: And you’re also dealing with religious beliefs.

AB: Where do you think they plan to be?

RH: Okay, remember when I came to Nevada and I showed you some things, and I sent you a piece of video and I asked you sit on it for a year. The STS-80 video.

AB: I recall extremely well, yes.

RH: And you saw --and then ultimately Whitley wound up putting it on NBC-- what looked to be like extraordinary spaceships cavorting around in Earth orbit, that are light years beyond the shuttle?

AB: Yes.

RH: And my [political] model is that they aren’t “aliens,” they aren’t ET’s ... they are ours. They’re part of a secret, black-budget program that had been going on ever since 1947 when, according to your friend, a certain Phillip Corso, we back-engineered a stunning hyper-dimensional propulsion and energy technology … and have quietly put it to use in the military, in a black-ops program. And I believe they intend, whoever these “they” are, to take a bunch of their cronies and friends, and when the going gets tough … they will get going --

Probably to Mars.

Now, back during the heyday when Hubble was broken. Remember Hubble being broken?--

AB: Yes.

RH: --it couldn’t take a decent picture, if its life depended on it -- I’m walking through the airport in O’Hare, in Chicago, one afternoon, and I happen to see on the newsstand this extraordinary color cover image of Life magazine. And it’s a picture of Mars -- in full color -- taken by the “broken” Hubble telescope. At that point, because I was kind of close to Hubble (remember the school project I had in Washington, where we had the Hubble guys coming in and talking to the kids?), I knew a lot about what was going on [with Hubble]. I said to myself, “Why in the world, in the middle of their ‘crisis,’ are they taking pictures of Mars with this damn broken telescope?”

The title of that Life cover was, “Our Next Home.”

I wonder who that cover was directed to …?

AB: I don’t know. To imagine with you, Richard, all of this is to imagine that somebody’s making a pretty poor bet, if their bet is “to hell with Earth, we’re gonna let it go through a cyclical change …” without trying to harness whatever powers your suggesting to me can change it – the pyramids – and we’re gonna go racing off to Mars where we’re gonna have a jolly old time while everybody else on Earth dies.

I mean, just, it just doesn’t make sense to me that that would be a plan of anybody. I mean it’s not such a good bet, Richard, right now, going to Mars and abandoning a dying Earth.

RH: I’m not quite sure what your problem is. That, they wouldn’t have the audacity to do it? They wouldn’t have the technology? They wouldn’t have the money? They wouldn’t have the secrecy? They wouldn’t have the instinct? They wouldn’t have the motivation? Where’s the problem in the model, in the theory?

AB: Well, Mars doesn’t look like a warm Caribbean island, Richard. It doesn’t look—

RH: But -- if it’s the only place you can go and not get blown to smithereens … because the planet’s gonna tip over … it’s kind of, you know …  remember the old joke, about “where does an 800 pound gorilla sleep?”

AB/RH: Anywhere it wants to.

RH: We have people living tonight at the bottom of the world -- in frigid, absolutely minus-120-degree-below temperatures, and howling 60 to 80-mile-an-hour gale winds --right?

AB: Yes we do.

RH: And we used to have them powered by nuclear power, before the environmentalists chucked the nukes out of McMurdo. So we’re trucking in lots and lots of oil [now] to keep the gas burners going and the generators going, and in that bubble down there, that geodesic dome (courtesy of Bucky Fuller), we have men and women --and you and I have discussed very strange things going on at the bottom of the world, have we not?--

AB: We have.

RH: --that have lived in “a little bubble of technology and light” -- in the middle of such desolation and such privation and cold, that you could not survive outside ten minutes --  unprotected -- right?

AB: Yes.

RH: Mars is far more benign than the Antarctic.

AB: It’s still not a cakewalk.

RH: But with proper technology, and all the money they can “pick from your pocket and mine” -- that no one ever is tracking -- a few, a thousand … ten thousand … a hundred thousand … whatever number you think is “the few” -- could keep the human race alive … when the rest of it goes to “heck in a hand basket!”

AB: Why let that happen, Richard?

RH: Because, they may not know they can do anything different!

Remember what my old Intel friend used to say, and says to me again and again when he talks to me. He says, “The lie is different … at every level.”

DW: Yep.

RH: If you look at some of the things that are written about these catastrophes, by those that are most “in the know,” they themselves think it is unstoppable. It’s like, you know, I used to have a girlfriend and she was into astrology, and one day she looked at me and she said, “I can’t fight the planets. They’re bigger than I am!”

And I’m looking this problem in that vein … that we have been taught that you “can’t fight Mother Nature.” The best that you can [do is to] kind of “come to a truce,” maybe a stand-off -- a Mexican stand-off – but you can’t really intervene, and you can’t really change your fate if your planet decides to throw what it’s going to throw against you. Isn’t that the basic story of “The Global Superstorm?”

AB: Yes, well--

RH: That, you get the hell out of the way … you can’t do anything about it!

AB: Yes well, the archeological side of it, I’m afraid is on the side of this occurring.

RH: But it doesn’t say that you have to keep repeating the “sins of the Fathers.” Maybe we can be smarter this time around. Maybe we can get enough people to take us seriously. And the cool part, Art, the part that David and I are in 100-percent agreement on, is that we don’t have to invent anything. Because we know, from data that’s leaked out in a variety of ways, and that piece of [NASA] video that I gave to you, we know the black-ops boys have all the necessary technology to at least begin to tackle the problem -- if they are of a mind to.

It’s up to us to make them “of a mind to.”

AB: David, do you agree with all of that, for the most part? Or if you disagree, where?

DW: I see that, for example, you probably heard about this Area 51 scientist Dr Dan Burisch.

AB: Yes, but I followed that trail, David, and I’m not at all satisfied--

RH: Neither am I.

AB: --with the genuine aspect of that … (all three crosstalk simultaneously, inaudible)

DW: You’ve got to hear where I was going, though.

AB: I’d love to hear where you are going, and will in a second. I’m just telling you that I interviewed some people who were supposedly in communication with this man. And I did not find reliable or test-worthy any of what was said to me. Having said that, and I really wanted to say it, go ahead and say what you were going to say.

DW: Well, I just wanted to point that if anything of what he said was true, an article I wrote [The Matrix is a Reality, http://ascension2000.com/04.10.03.htm] was one of only about two website links that he used in his summaries. So that was a big event for me, because I realized that if this guy is for real, then the stuff that Richard and I are working on is cutting edge even for them. So the intel that you and the audience are hearing tonight is as hot, as cutting edge, as fresh as if you were in Area 51, sitting in a small little briefing room and having access to this compartmentalized information.

They don’t know that “the Physics” can make a difference! The Alternative 3 -- the “three alternatives” -- are ridiculous. We’re talking about [“alternatives”] like “blowing holes in the atmosphere, to let the heat out.” All you have to do, in order to understand how this Physics works, is basically get down to what’s really happening at the quantum level, how is matter created. Gravity--

AB: We’re out here really dancing on the edge, in my opinion.

RH: Wait, wait, wait. According to Gene Mallove, in that last conversation (and again, I’m thinking about how incredibly prescient the things he said [were] and the things I said in that last conversation), where Gene was, when he died, is that current physics -- including quantum mechanics, relativity, zero-point, all of it -- is garbage.

DW: Yep.

RH: It’s bunk. Complete garbage, Art. And what replaces it is something akin to what David and I have been talking about tonight, and this was from Mallove himself. The proof of this is in the experiments conducted by reputable, exquisitely genius-level people who have actual equipment and technology that is available to be seen on videos, or in person, and certainly funded for development -- and they can not get a dime of funding. In fact, his entreatment to me in our conversation was, “Dick, if you know of anybody who has an extra ten or twenty thousand dollars to put into our non-profit foundation, so we can fund some of these critical experiments and keep these people alive, please let them know.” And I said to him, and this is incredibly ironic, I said, “Gene you need to come back on ‘Coast’ and tell the Country what you’ve got in that drawer,” and he said, “I would love to.”

DW: I saw the film [of the kind of devices in that drawer in action.]

RH: And, two days later … he can’t do it.

AB: But it is important that we… I don’t know, I felt when we started down the Burisch trail. Richard, you’ve looked into…

RH: No, I have looked at Burisch and I think it is complete disinformation.

AB: I do too.

RH: I think it is complete nonsense. It is more noise. It’s like when you get to the end part of this game, Art.

AB: Well, if you don’t separate the noise, Richard--

RH: You gotta separate it.

AB: --from the signal, then you’re not going anywhere.

RH: That’s right. And you gotta be very fine tuned, and know when your BS detector is really being tickled. The Burisch thing, to me, it reeks of disinformation.

AB: Okay, we agree on that.

DW: Yeah, I don’t disagree either. [I believe that Burisch is telling the truth as it has been shown to him, but that he is not fully receiving the truth – including the data from the alleged ETs themselves.]

RH: Apart from that, apart from that the fact that Mallove has stood behind in public some stunning technologies … technologies that go back to the work of Wilhelm Reich. Now, that’s a name you should remember, Art.

AB: Yes, of course.

RH: Wilhelm Reich was a medical doctor, and he got into something called Orgone energy, which was never really understood. He tried to get Einstein to take it seriously, and there was some conversation there and Einstein did not really duplicate a key experiment. So ultimately, he passed, but the fact is that the people that Gene has worked with, in the lab that he set up, have done stunning confirmations of almost everything that Wilhelm Reich wrote about. And you know what happened to Reich in the 1940’s? They ultimately arrested him--

DW: Yeah, he died broken-hearted.

RH: --locked him in prison, and killed him.

AB: And of course, Tesla.

RH: Then we go back to Tesla.

AB: Tesla has to mix into all of this.

RH: It’s like the old joke about the guys, you know, all the blind guys handling the elephant: one’s got the trunk, one’s got the leg, one’s got the tail. We’re all talking about the same stuff. It just has different names. And the stuff that Gene was talking about as the ultimate Creator of reality, which goes from beagles to begonias, in other words consciousness and life and biology and human beings and the spark of the soul that makes us alive and aware and questioning, as well as the sun and the Galaxy and Andromeda and anything out there… It’s all part of the same stuff. It is this invisible, massless aether, with which Gene fundamentally can create anything under the right conditions. [You] can reform reality in any form you want, under the right conditions, and that in turn is modulated by the transfer between higher dimensions and this 3-D reality.

AB: All right, gentlemen, hold tight. Richard C. Hoagland, David Wilcock and truly a galaxy-like discussion. It comes again and again and again. I wonder if this next time we’ll be able anything at-all about it.

(Commercial Break)

AB: Of this morning’s show, I tell you, I buy the cyclical event part with regard to Earth. There’s plenty of evidence to back that up. It has happened, it will happen again. I might even buy where the energy comes from to achieve this change. The hyperdimensional physics aspect of it. I think when you look at the 19.5 evidence, there’s plenty of support for it there. So I buy almost all of that. In fact, once again, plug for (laughs) the movie, The Day After Tomorrow, that’s where the energy would come from. So I can buy all of that, I can even understand it, but what I can’t grasp, what I just cannot grasp, is that a group of humans would covertly, understanding that this was coming, whether they thought they could do something about it or not, virtually build something to save their butts, go to Mars and let Earth and all its inhabitants perish. And that being some great secret plan to save a few butts while all of ours roast. That part, I just can’t digest.

(Commercial Break)

AB: Once again, Richard C. Hoagland, David Wilcock. Gentlemen, welcome back.

So I can buy a lot of this. As I said, the cyclical part seems real and supportable. Even the hyperdimensional energy, certainly the energy is real and probably supportable and may be tappable. But then to extend out to where you’ve got this secret group of people who are realizing that this catastrophic event is coming to Earth and they’re going to escape in their spaceships to Mars or something, leaving us to our awful--

RH: Well fortunately, the Model doesn’t depend on the politics. Whether there are people that know or don’t know is completely irrelevant to what we’re figuring out.

AB: What I can believe, Richard, is that people have certain financial interests, like oil and the world economy such as it is--

RH: Yeah, remember, the lie is different at every level.

AB: That … that’s--

RH: And for those people that’s their universe, and they will hang on to the last drop. You know, four dollars a gallon? How about 40 dollars a gallon? Now, that’s the box we’re in. How do we get out? We’ve got two problems – a short-term problem and a long-term problem. The short-term problem is keeping the civilization alive that we want to live in, and the long-term problem is keeping the planet alive that we want to live on. And the data that David and I have put together, and we’re posting on the web… I think, David, we’re going to have to have more than three parts to this--

AB: Well--

DW: Yeah, it sounds like it.

AB: You know, David, if what you said about the experiments in Russia is accurate, then the way to do it is to, I don’t know, in some manner force this information to be more public to the degree that the larger institutions have no choice but to attempt to begin to duplicate it and break this out!

DW: The good part is that there are a lot of honest guys in the government. I was there at the May 10th Disclosure Project event in 2001, which kind of got blown away by 911, but nonetheless I was in that room with the Closed Executive Summary Briefing for members of Congress. I watched these guys giving standing ovations when hearing from Sgt. Clifford Stone some of the most wildly esoteric UFO data you could imagine. So there’s a lot of people out there who are in positions of power where they can make a difference, and they honestly don’t know about this stuff, because it’s not part of the regular, legitimate government.

RH: This is why I am planning, in the briefing that I am going to do on the Hill, to bring some of these technologies and if necessary some of the scientists to Washington to stand there with me. And Gene was going to be one of my prime witnesses. Well, there are a lot of others. Gene was a conduit, Gene was a nexus point, but Gene fortunately was not one-of-a-kind.

AB: Well, Gene is obviously no longer with us. That’s the horrible news of the night, folks. So you … there’s a device--

RH: Knowing his integrity, I mean, I will send to you, because you obviously have been looking at this and wanting a real set of stuff to appear for a long time…

AB: Oh yes.

RH: I will send you what he sent to me, which is his first-person technical and philosophical testimony of what he observed, the experiments, how it works, the technology, demonstrated in front of him.

AB: Do you have enough information, Richard, to be led back to this, to get this device in question?

RH: I know who the people are! I’ve talked with them!

AB: OK. Can you make your way to this device?

RH: Well, I can probably… I mean, I can call them. But maybe I shouldn’t call them. Maybe I should physically go there, because the last person I called, very nasty things happened to. So I may have to be a little smarter about it this time. But yes, I know who they are and I know what they have done and I know the foundations it will rock if I can demonstrate to these people in Washington, these honest people, which I totally agree with David, that regardless of whether there is a cabal or not, 99.99% of the system, Art, is completely ignorant of anything.

AB: All right, David, you wanted to say something.

DW: Yeah. I’ve seen the film of the device that everybody is so hot for. When Dr. Greer is talking about SEAS Power, S-E-A-S, Space Energy Access Systems…

RH: Uh huh.

AB: Oh yes! He’s been hot on it for a while now.

DW: It’s probably the same one that Dr. Eugene Mallove was talking about.

RH: No, it’s not. This one works.

DW: Well, that’s the thing. I just wanted to say that I saw a film of a guy--

RH: And this is not just a device, it is a physics … of a multiple series of devices … including, Art, one that produces anti-gravitational effects.

DW: Right.

AB: Are you two talking about the same device?

RH: No. No, we’re not.

DW: Just let me get this out. The one that I saw was a half a sphere [made of metal and mounted on a 1-foot-wide wooden board], and it had an outlet – a regular, ordinary, 120 volt AC outlet [mounted on the board as well]. And this guy was able to start his car with it, and he was able to power a lamp and do anything that you’d normally do with a regular outlet. Now the thing is--

RH: It’s not the same. It’s not the same.

DW: Okay. There are no moving parts inside. [The device works simply by constructing a nested series of geometric forms (Platonic Solids), in metal, that are in precise harmonic relationships to each other. This was based on the pioneering 19th century research of John Keely. The current is drawn between the outer rim of the half-sphere and the exact center of the nested geometry. He was able to tune it to run at a standard household alternating current 120-volt level. The only problem that he had was that when you first plugged in the lamp, it would get brighter than normal, so there is an initial surge of extra current at the beginning. However, if you were charging up batteries with it and using them, this would obviously not be a problem.]

[The whole thing was no larger than a telephone book with an upside-down salad bowl on top of it. One or two such devices, passively and continuously charging a leftover telephone switch station battery (roughly 1500-2500 dollars), would probably be enough to power someone’s home for as long as the battery lasted. Since it runs entirely on geometry, this particular design gives heavy support to the reality of what we are discussing in the Hyperdimensional Model, as the geometry we see in the planets is the same geometry that powers this device. Once the exact ratios between the geometries are known it would be dirt simple and dirt cheap to mass-produce these devices; but obviously the inventor fears for his life and knows the stakes.]

RH: The one I’m thinking of is a motor, Art, and get this – the motor is not connected to anything. It just sits in empty space and it spins, and when you touch it, as a human being, it spins faster.

DW: Yep.

RH: Because the physics of life -- remember the old Victorian idea of the vital force, the life force?

AB: Yes…

RH: That’s why biology on this planet appeared at a certain time, half a billion years ago, after certain things happened on the Earth that did not happen in the three and a half billion years before. It is because biology and consciousness are part of this Physics.

Which brings me to something very important. You have conducted yourself, my friend, seven, count the number -- tetrahedral “seven” -- fundamental consciousness experiments.

AB: Yes.

DW: The Great Experiment.

RH: And one of those saved my life.

DW: Yep.

RH: As we recounted the other night with George-- when Robin was on as a guest -- without that intrusion into my situation … I did not know at the time, and nobody has known, so we’re going to tell your audience tonight … the doctors had, in essence, written me off! They basically told her “that I was toast.” They didn’t tell me, but they told her. SO she moved heaven and earth -- with all the supplements and all the other things -- and did her part of this miracle. But the other part, Art -- that I really cannot discount, because I could feel it -- was an actual, palpable change in how I felt. And believe me, when you’re dying, you’re very sensitive to how you feel.

DW: (Laughs)

AB: Yeah. The other subjects of these Experiments said these exact same words.

RH: Okay. When you focus the consciousness of -- I don’t know how many millions of people who are listening to us tonight, unbelieving of many of the things we’ve been saying -- when you focused all those people on me, to get well, it changed. Something changed. In fact, it changed so dramatically that some of my enemies put things on websites … remember that (suggesting that I had hoaxed the whole thing)!!?

AB: If, Richard (laughing:) yes.

RH: Remember that?

AB: Richard, I know…

RH: Now, here’s where it gets important. Now, let me finish. Please let me finish.

AB: I know it works …  I’m going to let you finish. I know it works.

RH: Okay. So if it works, and we’re dealing with a “ruffled physics,” an out of tune [Physics], a dissonance -- think of those fingernails on the blackboard – everybody … that awful sound you used to hear in school, that would make your teeth crawl, or you want to jump up out of your seat?

AB: Yeah.

RH: Think of tha, and magnify it by a hundred billion times … and that’s what the world “feels” … and it tips over.

But the antidote is maybe not just technology, maybe not gadgets, maybe not machines, maybe not what Gene was looking at, but what Art Bell has been doing, which is to focus people’s energies, their concentration, on smoothing out the rough edges and moving us through this perilous time in a coherent, musical coherent fashion. A harmonious transition as opposed to a discordant transition. It could be as simple, Art, as getting this audience to focus on a future they really want to happen -- not the one they are afraid will happen.

DW: I’m real glad to hear Richard Hoagland say that. I am in complete agreement.

RH: Because there is a unity between the Physics and consciousness … and life! That’s what the bottom line of this research has proven now, to my satisfaction.

DW: Well, I’m glad you’re satisfied, because I have been saying that for a long time … I wanted to check out one more pyramid thing, because it totally ties in with what you just said. This one came from the Russian National Academy of Science. They just took ordinary salt and pepper and stuck it inside the pyramid. They then removed it and fed it surreptitiously to about five thousand people in certain selected jails in Russia.

AB: Mm hm.

DW: Amazingly, within a few months there was a dramatic improvement in the behavior of the guys in the jails. Most of the criminal behavior almost completely disappeared, alcoholism [began to disappear,] whereas in the control jails there was no sign of any behavioral change. Nothing in the jails under this study had changed, except that the salt and pepper from the pyramids was being secretly added to their food.

So if the energy of the pyramid harnesses and focalizes this energy of consciousness, if the pyramid structure has sort of a funnel-like effect for this fluidlike energy … and can concentrate it …

AB: Yes.

DW: And if consciousness can move the energy the same way, then what if each person is sort of like a little portable Stargate, and the reason why we’re having so much trouble has to do with people’s inability to be honest with themselves, honest with each other. Then, their own internal shadow side gets projected out into the collective, so you get the shadow of each person being acted out in these occult politics. And when we get right with ourselves inside, the whole hologram changes. So, I do have a portion of my work that focuses extensively on what we can do, just in terms of getting to know ourselves better, and basically just being nice to people. And the difference that that can really make.

Meditating for world peace can decrease the crime in a given city by 76%. That was the Maharishi Effect.

RH: Art, the numbers are there. The studies are there. Yes.

DW: It’s true.

RH: Now, remember Bob’s fast blast a few hours ago? Where he asked, “is the problem in ourselves and not the Universe?”

AB: Yes.

RH: The answer is yes. We are part of the “broken physics” -- of this system. The difference is that the planet cannot change itself, because it is not conscious. We are conscious. We can control this dynamic, and you and I have lived through these experiments. Remember our Princeton colleagues, and their little eggs. Right?

AB: Clearly.

RH: We know that if you harness the combined good, positive energies of enough people, miracles … what anybody else would define as a miracle … can happen. I am literally tonight talking to you, Art, because I am living proof of your faith and confidence in people to make a difference. In my life.

DW: Absolutely.

AB: Well, I’ve seen this power work, so I know it works. I’m pretty well beyond that. I have no greater understanding of this power, and the possible consequences of its use, than I had then. I don’t understand it, and so I’m very hesitant to toy with what I don’t understand. Once I realized [spoken in low, galloping, somewhat goofy voice:] “Oh gosh, you know, this really is a power, this really does work,” once that hit me like a brick, then it slowed me down. I began to tell myself that I don’t understand what I’m doing.

DW: Yeah.

AB: I don’t know what I’m doing. And there is a law of unintended consequences. There is also a time, I suppose, when things are so serious that you don’t have much to lose.

RH: You got it. When the cliff is behind you, and “the Thing” is in front of you, and you’ve got to make the decision--

AB: Yes. Yes. Yes.

RH: But you have now demonstrated, seven times, that this, in a proper moral atmosphere, can produce important miracles. And you’ve intervened in people’s lives, my friend. You intervened in my life. And I believe, firmly, that I am here tonight, in part, because of what you were able to get this collective consciousness, of all those people out there, to focus on, which is to keep me around … so I can be a thorn in your side for a few more years.

AB: (casually delighted:) Hah, ha, ha.

DW: Now, if we get the disclosure of this technology, it can’t but only add to the way that people are going to open up and change. And that will change the Physics. So it’s like you teach people the physics, and the Physics … changes.

RH: See, this is one reason I think why certain of these discoveries are suppressed. Not so much because of the technical or technological aspects of what they will make possible. But because of the incredible liberating effects on consciousness.

DW: Correct.

RH: We are our own worst enemies. We have trapped ourselves within this prison. And all we see played out on CNN are the endless tape loops of horror, and destruction, and degradation, and perdition, and every possible vile thing you can imagine, ramped up to a crescendo where people either turn off or tune out … or go crazy.

DW: If it bleeds, it leads.

AB: (Disappointed-sounding:) I know.

RH: So the antidote is to provide people with Hope, with a capital H. And there’s something that’s going to happen in our arena this summer, and Linda Moulton Howe, God bless her, is the first person to give us real information and intelligence on this. She interviewed one of the senior scientists on the Mars Express mission. And Whitley was talking to you the other night about this, remember?

AB: Oh, yes!

RH: She said that, and I went to her website, and I am going to link to a story that we are doing on this after David and I have finished this program tonight. She interviewed this guy who was the chief scientist on the spectrometer on the Mars Express spacecraft. He came within a whisker, within a hair’s breadth, of admitting that he has found “benzene, formaldehyde and other organic molecules” produced only by life, because they disappear in the Mars atmosphere in hours, unless they are replaced. And he plans to announce his firm findings, either in July, across, by the way, David, the canonical July 20th date--

DW: Uh huh…

RH: The COSPAR meeting, the sacred Egyptian ritual date of July 20th--

DW: You got it.

RH: Or – [at] the September meeting, later in the fall, just before the [US] election. What he’s going to announce is that these molecules have been found, they have been confirmed, and they prove conclusively -- because they can’t be there otherwise -- that there is current life on Mars.

Art, when that happens, and this is what I was telling Gene, and we had such joy sharing our positive outcomes now that we have gone through the vineyards and labored for so long to see light at the end of this tunnel--

AB: Mm hm.

RH: I said, “Gene, when that happens…” “You don’t have to tell me, Dick,” he said, “All kinds of other paradigms will come marching through that door, and things people thought were impossible, outrageous, nonsense, bunk, pseudo-science, will suddenly have to be taken seriously, and the media will become our friend, because they will be avidly following up on the stories of all the other discoveries that nobody thought were true, but turn out to be true. And that, by the way, is the title of my talk on Capitol Hill. “Life on Mars … and Other Fantasies that are Real.”

AB: Well, that should get their attention! Uh, David?

DW: This is part of the fulfillment of the prophecies. There are all these prophecies that talk about the kind of conditions that we are going through right now…

AB: There are!

DW: And they describe a massive change in the whole way in which society functions, and how people think about themselves.

AB: They do!

RH: See, I’m a great believer in free will. And I’ve gotten a lot of metaphysical stuff under my belt in the last twenty years of doing this and pursuing this. And I really believe, David, that if we were doomed, if we were condemned to do what the previous generations were condemned to … we wouldn’t be given these choices

DW: Yeah! Why would there be a prophecy? What’s the point?

RH: But the opposition is fighting so hard to keep us from figuring it out –because, if we figure it out, and we get enough people to join us, we can make a difference. And that was what Gene died believing.

DW: What I’m hoping is that by a strict political expediency, the number of people who know about this becomes too great, so that even if somebody does want to suppress it, they basically can’t in order to save face. That’s what needs to happen. And the way we’re going to do that is by getting the people who can get the message out to the people aware of how simple this is, aware that the whole, entire solar system is changing in very obvious ways. If this movie, The Day After Tomorrow, can help kick-start that whole thing and get people talking about this stuff, they can segue right into what we’re doing right now. All NASA scientists, all mainstream. Nothing fringe .... Straight-ahead science that says the solar system is changing, and that we need to learn about the Physics to figure out what we can do to get through this more smoothly.

AB: Well, I think that’s the biggest thing you’ve said tonight – to document the changes going on all around us. That should have meaning. Richard, as always, thank you very much!

RH: Thank you, Art. I have one little surprise for you.

AB: Very quickly!

RH: FOX has invited Robin and me to be with you at the Premiere.

DW: All right.

AB: (Delighted:) Ha ha ha ha ha!

RH: We will see you in New York, my friend!

DW: Congratulations.

AB: All right. Congratulations, Richard. See you in New York.

RH: Good night, David.

DW: Good night, Richard. Good night, Art. Good night, everybody!

AB: Good night. Richard C. Hoagland, David Wilcock, and there you have it. Well, everybody, see you tomorrow night. And tomorrow night, another advocate of multiple dimensions, the incredible Dr. Michio Kaku. For me, and for all those who help bring this program to you, from the high desert, good night, all.

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