Hoagland and Wilcock interview on Coast to Coast AM
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5-15-2004

AB: Tomorrow night, at this time, Dr Michio Kaku is going to be my guest. He’s a certainly a proponent of the idea that there are multiple dimensions. In fact, the very best theoretical physicists of our time believe that there are as many as eleven dimensions. Now, if you’ve been struggling as I always have to understand what Richard calls “hyper-dimensional” physics, maybe we can explain it. We can give it a try anyway. If you consider all of these worlds that do have an anomalous amount of energy that you can see, or a major flaw, or something at the 19.5 give-a-way point – even our own Earth… we’ll get to that in a moment.

(Commercial continues)

AB: At one moment, there is something very mysterious about all of these things on all of these planets. By the way even the sun, I believe [has phenomena that occur], at 19.5. And even our own Earth [does as well]. Is that correct, Richard? What do we have at 19.5 here on Earth that would be…?

RH: Well, we have Hawaii. We have the big island and the big volcano on Hawaii which is analogous to Olympus Mons on Mars.

AB: So you’re saying the energy is being dispersed?

RH: There is an upwelling. There is a plume of lava, and because we’re on Earth (and have sensitive instrumentation), we can actually measure this.

AB: What about 19.5? Everybody knows about Hawaii. As you continue around the world, are there more remarkable?—

RH: Well, no, because what happens is you get a consolidation of the energy upwellings in a physical form, like a vortex or a volcano into one “biggie.” But, if you look at earthquake data, seismic data, we know there’s a plume of hot lava coming up from the outer core of the Earth. [It moves] eighteen hundred miles straight up, under Hawaii. This plume of energy is like an arrow coming up from the core of the Earth, bursting through the crust at 19.5 [degrees]. Because of plate tectonics, because of the motion of the crust of the Earth, the plates of the Earth [passing] laterally [beside each other] like ships in the night, the upwelling punches through the crust at different positions and creates the different islands [at different times].

And, if you actually “unroll the film”  -- if you reel back time and look at where the islands were millions of years ago -- you find that it’s almost like you had a cigarette under a sheet of paper, and you burned a little hole in the paper, then you move the cigarette (or, you move the paper), and you burn another mark … and then another … and you have this linear chain of upwellings that burst through the surface.

AB: At 19.5, predominantly.

RH: At 19.5-- because the latitude is fixed relative to the pole.

AB: Gotcha. What about our sun, Richard, does it also have anomalies at 19.5?

RH: As I said in this paper, this critical paper I found a few years ago by Parker, who was the first to notice this -- Parker was a big solar expert in the 1950’s. He noted that the peak of the sunspot cycle occurred with sunspots which are not all over the sun equally. They basically start at around 30 to 40 degrees north [and south] latitude, and as the cycle progresses they winch their way down – a term I use very specifically – towards the equator; from both sides: the north pole of the sun, the south pole of the sun. And at the peak of the sunspot cycle, which is every eleven years, they peak at about 19.5 north and south latitude on the sun.

AB: So Richard, when we discuss this hyper-dimensional physics, are we discussing a universal truth? A truth attributed to every body in motion? The sun, the Earth, Mars, all the planets?

RH: All the individual spinning planets in this solar system, the solar system itself, all the other stars and potential solar systems that we’re finding. I mean, I can bore you with--

AB:  I said “is it a universal?”--

RH: Yes, it appears to be universal. What I’ve been trying to do for the last ten years or so is to quietly accumulate more and more mainstream scientific evidence, observational evidence which basically confirms the theory, the Model.

AB: Okay. This is observable. Everybody, who in the audience cares to try and prove it to themselves, can -- about this “19.5” point.

RH: Oh, it’s a stunning pattern.

AB: But it’s something we can actually see. We can verify for ourselves.

RH: Yep, yep.

AB: It seems very much this-dimensional. At least, the effects of it.

RH: Well the effects are, of course, in this dimension – this is where we live. But the cause is not in this dimension, and that’s where we go back to the nineteenth century mathematicians like Cayle, and physicists like, you know, Faraday and--

DW: Whittaker…

AB: Okay, well David, good.

RH: Maxwell! -- the other guy.

AB: Maxwell, yeah, sorry, fine.

David, again you were a student of Richard’s. You read his book, you obviously are on fire about--

RH: (Warmly:) A distant student…

AB:-- the meaning of all of this…

RH: We never talked … until a couple of years ago.

DW: That’s correct.

AB: But I mean, in the middle of all this -- this is big stuff -- where do you fit? Kind of give me an idea.

DW: Well, what I basically saw was that there was room for the hyper-dimensional model to expand. Richard works on a number of different areas of inquiry [Mars, the hyperdimensional physics that came out of his Mars studies, the on-going politics of the cover-up, the media complicity in all that …], all of which are very important and very fruitful. I pretty much choose to [focus] on just “the physics.”

Where we stand tonight is truly a magnificent place, because Richard essentially gave me an assignment [a couple months ago] … and I completed the assignment … and it’s an astonishing body of data that we’ve [now] come up with -- which is showing that the entire solar system -- not just at any one point like 19.5 -- but the planets themselves, and in many cases their moons, are showing dramatic signs of energetic increase. This includes increasing atmospheric pressure, increasing brightness from the Aurora Borealis, increasing magnetic field strength … increasing “cataclysmic activity” in many cases. I can stand here tonight and basically say to you, “Name a planet and I’ll tell you what’s changing about it. It doesn’t even matter which one you pick, because we’ve got data for every single one.

AB: Mars.

DW: Mars. In 1997, on the Hubble [Space] Telescope website [http://www.hubblesite.org], the [head of Public Affairs] of NASA at the time, Don Savage, said that between the late 1970’s and 1997, Mars had “developed clouds, had lost most of its dust, and had picked up a ‘surprise abundance’ of ozone.” And one of the things we’re talking about in this [HD] Model has to do with the emergence of this charged energy … like ozone (or plasma, as it is called) – this luminous sea of electrons, protons. This is a sign, in this new Model, of a higher degree of energy that’s “bleeding through” to the 3rd dimension.

The Mars Surveyor Probe was orbiting Mars in 1997 and encountered, in one area, a two hundred percent increase in atmospheric pressure from what was expected there.

RH: At a couple hundred miles’ altitude!--

AB: And there’s nothing to account for these [sudden] changes in this dimension. In other words, we can’t [just] look at the sun, and see more output. Is there anything -- I’m looking for physical things -- that we can say account for this change. For example, in Mars I’ve even heard there’s global warming going on and--

DW: That’s correct.

AB: --on Mars. That is...

DW: Yeah. I mean, the irony is that all of this data is being released with “conventional-sounding explanations.”

AB: All right, what would be a “conventional sounding” explanation for “global warming on Mars?” I would be very interested in that.

DW: It has to do with the ice caps, the regions that are at the poles being tilted more towards the sun -- and they [NASA] claim that because that’s going on, that it warms up the planet and melts the ice caps.

AB: And they are melting, aren’t they? They are melting, right?

DW: Oh, dramatically so, yeah.

RH: The problem is that the time scales don’t fit.

There is something on Mars, on Earth, and many other planets called obliquity shifts. The tilt of a planet’s spin to its orbit around the sun is called its “obliquity.” For the Earth it’s 23.5 degrees, for Mars it’s 25 degrees, for Jupiter it’s around 3 degrees, for Saturn it’s about 27 …. You know, you all see models of the solar system where you have these little canted planets rakishly titled in their orbit around the sun.

AB: Sure, absolutely.

RH: Planets’ obliquities change over time. In mainstream models, this is probably due to gravitational and tidal effects between planets, even though we are millions of miles apart. This is a small point of contention [in the HD Physics Model], but let’s assume that it’s true. What it means [is that] that you can construct models in the computer which will predict, you know, from here forward, or, from here back, you know, a million years, five million years, twenty million years ago … what the tilt of the planet would be, and the effect of that on the total solar insolation of the planet -- how much energy is absorbed and reflected, and what it would do to the planetary climate. [But, because these planetary changes in obliquity occur so slowly -- over literally millions of years-- that CANNOT be used to explain the sudden, dramatic melting of Mars’ poles – and its current “global warming” – that we’re seeing now.  Thus, the mainstream (NASA) model trying to account for these unquestionable Mars climatic changes … fails!  That leaves the HD Model.]

AB: All right Richard, hold tight for a second. David?

DW: Yes.

AB: Venus.

DW: Venus. Between 1978 to 1983, the amount of sulfur gases in Venus’ atmosphere – according to Bullock and Grinspoon, in Scientific American Magazine – decreased dramatically. I’ll say that again: the amount of sulfur gas, which obviously smells like rotten eggs, decreased dramatically between 1978 to 1983.

A parallel study was done between the Russian probes known as the Venera, that visited Venus in 1975, with our ground-based Keck telescopes in 1999. There was a difference noticed between the amount of brightness. There’s this green light that shows up in Venus’ [upper] atmosphere. In 1975, they didn’t see it at all, and in 1999, it was 2500% brighter. So this is an enormous change!

RH: Two thousand, five hundred percent.

AB: Again an—

DW: Two thousand, five hundred percent.

AB: --increase in energy?

DW: Actual physical green light.

RH: It’s the green light of oxygen. It’s the same [spectral] line that’s in the airglow over the Earth. Now here’s the weird part: the Earth’s oxygen atmosphere is like twenty percent, right?

AB: Yes…

DW: Right.

RH:  There’s supposed to be no oxygen on Venus, at all. So where -- in the space of a couple years, a few years -- did more oxygen come from in the upper Venus atmosphere, than is present in the upper terrestrial atmosphere?

DW: And where did all the sulfur go?

AB: These are Genesis-like changes!

RH: Huge, huge!

DW: We’re talking about the whole world’s atmosphere [Venus is almost a twin of Earth, in size] -- all at once -- having a dramatic decline in sulfur … in [just] five years!

AB: Got it.

RH: And they initially pegged this to a “mysterious, massive volcanic eruption” that must have taken place on Venus. Except, of course, Art, there’s no data -- there were no observations of any volcanoes, by any spacecraft or terrestrial instruments of Venus, ever in the history of observing Venus. They simply waved their magic wand -- this is a NASA guy that said [this] -- “Oh, it had to be a volcano because … what else could it be?”

AB/DW: Right, right.

RH: The problem in science is the “What else could it be?” This [deeply prejudiced thinking] is what Gene Mallove was fighting against … because the “what else” is what leads us to new territory, new discoveries, and new progress!

AB: David. Jupiter?

DW: Oh man, Jupiter is just incredible. There is this donut-shaped cloud of energy that goes around in the orbit of the moon Io, which is the closest [major] moon to Jupiter. This cloud didn’t even show up at all as of 1974. [But] as of 1979, there’s [suddenly] this donut-shaped, luminous cloud showing up around Jupiter. And then, between 1979 to 1995, the cloud becomes 200 percent brighter and denser.

At the same time, [Jupiters’] moon Io became a thousand percent higher in its ionosphere, which is where the charged energy goes. It [the ionosphere] was originally measured, in 1973, between 30 and 60 miles [in altitude]. In 1996, it was at 555 miles (that was from Dr Louis Frank, from NASA). The surface of Io is actually [now] three times hotter than the surface of Mercury. Okay, now Mercury’s right next to the sun. But here’s Io, hanging out around Jupiter [five times farther from the sun than Earth!] -- three times hotter than the surface of Mercury -- and it increased in its surface temperature by over 200 percent between 1979 and 1998.

RH: That’s not counting the volcanoes.

DW: Right.

AB: Boy. Boy oh boy. Are you beginning to see a commonality here, folks?

DW: And I’m telling you, pick a planet, it doesn’t even matter.

AB: Saturn.

DW: There is an aurora that was first seen, this glowing luminescent energy seen for the first time in 1999 -- I’m sorry, ’95 -- at the polar regions. Some weird stuff is going on there. I found one study from Dr Ed Sittler et. al that shows that between 1981 and 1993, a donut of energy very similar to the one we see around Jupiter, a similar one [that exists] around Saturn, had become a thousand percent more dense and bright.

RH: These are global changes, of “geological proportion” … occurring in just years, Art.

DW: Yeah.

RH: Not thousands of years, or millions of years--

AB: Just years.

RH: Right. Stunningly short periods of time.

DW: Twelve years, in this case.

AB: I’ve got it. That is very fast indeed. Alright, David, Earth.

DW: Earth.

AB: Earth.

DW: All kinds of good stuff. In 1998, the Van Allen belts had a new belt of energy that showed up for the first time. This was something that had never been seen before, it was basically where you have the -- I’ll read you the quote -- it says, “Activity in Earth’s two known Van Allen radiation belts grew so intense in May 1998, that a ‘new belt’ was created, generating excitement and awe in the scientific community.”

And as we go [along], we had Richard and you talking back in February of 1996 (and I was a listener at that time), about this [shuttle] “tethered satellite.”

AB: That’s right.

DW: Remember that one?

AB: Clearly.

DW: [The tether] melts and, you know, this satellite -- just for the readers’ sake -- I’ll say that it’s this satellite that’s attached to this very thin wire—

AB: Listeners.

DW: --which stretches out for a long way--

RH: (Chuckles)

DW: and it just burned up. And NASA had built this thing supposedly foolproof. I found one article on CNN that was linked from these other articles that said that the tether was “foolproof”. And of course, when you try to link on that one it’s no longer there, and Google doesn’t have it either.

RH: Well, it didn’t just “burn up.” This is a vivid recollection down memory lane. Because, after they deployed it -- remember it was built by the Italians -- it had this highly instrumented satellite at the end of this very long wire. They kind of un-reeled it from a “fishing reel kind of thing” in the [space shuttle] cargo bay. And. mile … after mile … after mile, it got out to its farthest appointment. They were coming over the terminator, between the sunset and nighttime side of the Earth, and it was exactly at the terminator -- over the evening terminator -- that “something” happened. They got a massive surge of current, thousands of times what they had modeled and expected from their computer calculations--

AB: Indeed…

RH: --based on other physics.

AB: That’s true.

RH: And the tether burned through! They had a press conference shortly thereafter, and the guys inside [the shuttle], the astronauts, looked like “Bambi in the Headlights.” They looked terrified! Because, you can imagine a “several mile long piece of wire,” snapping back and forth, that could have sliced the shuttle in two!

AB: Yeah, they damn near lost it, actually.

RH: They almost lost it. They also – and this was not reported – they had massive power surges on other instruments, onboard computers, they lost two out of the three backup computers, they almost did not make it home. But no one to this day at NASA will acknowledge where all the excess energy came from. And remember, that night where that we had Bruce DePalma from Australia?--

AB: Yes.

RH: --or, from New Zealand?

AB: Yes, yes.

RH: And we talked about the DePalma experiments with the N-machine?

AB: Right.

RH: If you rotate a conductor at high speed -- even in the presence of no [moving, relative to the conductor] magnetic field -- it develops a charge at the rim -- and you can pull electron current off the rim if you put a connector between the pole and the rim.

DW: Yeah, it kind of works like a lawn sprinkler.

RH: So this goes back to Faraday in 1835; back to the nineteenth century physics again. It is called a homo-polar generator and [it] does not conform to any known physics.

AB: Well, they obviously got far more than they expected.

RH: It was a free-energy device!

AB: Well…

RH: It was an orbital free energy device.

AB: In a sense it was.

RH: And the guys who built it didn’t know what was going to happen, and so they almost fried seven astronauts.

AB: Yes, I know.

RH: Now here’s the bottom line on that.

AB: How does the extra energy that they experienced fit into your model?

RH: Because it’s like a giant N-machine. It’s like what’s going on with rings of Saturn, which we’re gonna get back to in a second. If you have a rotating object in orbit around the Earth, or you have the [rotating] Earth itself

[Art,] you know you have your own little “hyper-dimensional experiment” going on there out in the desert.

AB: Yes.

RH: You have this antenna that you’ve been talking about loud and long.

AB: I know.

RH: You’ve got a mile or so of wire in what, two tiers?

AB: Yeah, that’s right.

RH: Lofted a couple hundred feet in the air?

AB: Not a couple hundred feet. 78, 75 feet and 68 respectively but a mile of wire, yes.

RH: Okay, you have got a conductor suspended above the planet on a rotating ball. You have a miniature free-energy, N-machine generator -- because it has nothing to do with “air” or “[static] electricity.”

AB: I … I know.

RH: It’s not cutting through the Earth’s magnetic field. It’s moving with the field.

AB: Okay, Richard, we’ve got to hold it right there.

Well, you know, I can confirm certain aspects of that. That energy is there, in AC and DC components, on a clear, windless day. Just to preclude a lot of, you know, “Well, you’re just getting static” kind of calls. I’ve tested and tested again, and I’m telling you right [now] -- that energy is there --on a clear, windless, sunny, beautiful, still, bird chirping kind of day. So, there you are. I don’t know what it is that I’ve got. I guess Richard thinks he knows … but I can tell you it’s real.

From the high desert in the middle of the night, this is Coast to Coast AM.

(Commercial Break)

AB: Once again, Richard C. Hoagland and David Wilcock. So the big question is: Where is the energy coming from? Is there enough energy to produce these kinds of rapid, dramatic, profound Earth changes, as in our climate flipping suddenly? Well, there’s a lot of evidence to indicate that yes, as a matter of fact there was a story last week that all of what was the Dust Bowl in the United States (a very tragic event, it was really horrible… you should do some reading about the dustbowl, God it’s incredible) was produced by just a couple of degrees of ocean change temperature. So, I don’t know. Would there be energy, gentlemen, for a kind of global superstorm, a kind of thing that would have perhaps frozen plants in wooly mammoths’ mouths? It flash-froze stuff down in South America, they’re finding now. Even corpses, and all kinds of things. The geologists can’t figure it out, so they put in on a shelf somewhere and say, “We’re not gonna deal with this.”

RH: Do you want the long answer or the short answer?

AB: I’ll always vote for the -- when it comes to you Richard, just, don’t even--

RH: And then you wonder why people ask if we have a feud going on--

RH/AB: (Laughs)

AB: Short answer, Richard.

RH: Do you remember the film, Forbidden Planet?

AB: Oh, so, well?

RH: That incredible film -- that I hope they don’t remake, that would be such a tragedy, certain things should be left exactly the way they are -- remember the scene in the Krell lab, with Walter Pigeon?

AB: Yes.

RH: Who’s the actor that [in other films, played] different things but [in Forbidden Planet] he played the starship commander?

AB: I don’t remember.

RH: Anyway there’s a scene where the doctor -- the guys name is Morbeus, the Walter Pigeon guy!--

AB: Yeah.

RH: And he’s been there for twenty years, trying to figure out this incredible super-science left by this [incredibly advanced alien] race, that mysteriously vanished before the [other guy’s] expedition got there.

AB: Right.

RH: And, they’ve now figured out that the reason they [the alien race] vanished, is because they created this incredible technology that could materialize [anything] out of nothing … just consciousness.

AB: Thought.

RH: Physical [stuff, created out of] just “thought,” physical objects … and energy [that] could cut through even incredible numbers of feet of so-called “Krell super metal”. And, there is this picture -- this stunning scene, that had been done by this set designer (who was a genius, whose name I forget) -- of all these electrical meters. And you know what the old fashioned meter readouts used to look like?

AB: Times ten, times ten, times ten, times ten to infinity virtually … in other words.

RH: Yeah, exactly. Ten times ten [etc.] … to the power of infinity. That is the amount of energy, Art, in hyperdimensional space -- in “hyperspace” -- available to do all of the awful things you just described. There is no limit to it!

AB: All right. And I guess here’s where David comes back in.

Are you saying, David, that we’re now seeing on all planetary bodies, that we’re able to observe sufficiently, an increase in their energy level output? I think I’ve got that right. You’re certainly saying … yes, the answer is yes. Where do you think this is headed?

DW: Well, I want to give fair air time to my hypothesis as well as Richard’s, because I think both of us are on the right track.

AB: All right, but you differ apparently -- let’s hear how.

DW: Well, most of the Russians who have been looking at this stuff have simply concluded that there are separated zones of energy in the [Milky Way] Galaxy. This is an energy that Western science is not aware of. Richard would call it “hyperdimensional energy,” I might call it “torsion fields,” “quantum medium,” whatever-- it’s the same basic stuff. The idea being that -- one really major competing hypothesis here, is that -- we’re moving into an area of the Galaxy where this energy is higher.

There’s one guy by the name of Dr. Sergei Smelyakov, and what he’s done is to show that 2012 [is] sort of like an implosion period. If you can just imagine, briefly, that you have a bottle of salad dressing, and the oil and the water is separated and there’s a nice straight line between the two. When we look at hyperdimensional energy, there’s a variety of things going all the way back to Tesla and earlier showing that, in many cases, this energy behaves similar to a fluid.

One of the things that happens when you vibrate a fluid is that geometry appears inside the fluid. It’s a natural waveform, which happens to be three-dimensional. Scientists don’t like that, because it’s a lot harder to model a three dimensional wave than a two dimensional wave. But this gets back to some of the Maxwell stuff, where there were [twenty] quaternions, as he called them [that he used to model the electromagnetic wave], which are basically mathematical things [“operators”], that let you make coordinates in four dimensions rather than three. That’s probably the easiest way to say it.

So he [Maxwell] mapped out that even in electromagnetic energy there are these hidden, what Richard calls “scalar potentials,” that are sort of pushing on that electromagnetic wave. There are tetrahedrons [four-sided “pyramids” with the bottom and every face as an equilateral triangle] “hiding” in there ….

So then, what we’re talking about, basically, is that the very energy that underlies matter and consciousness, and the behavior of light -- the speed of light, all this stuff --can vary from one place to another. It appears that there are zones in which this energy can vary within a single galaxy. And it also appears that 2012 represents a water line between one density and another [in our location in the Galaxy].

And it’s a lot more technical than I’d really want to try to go into, but basically if you throw a little stone into a pond you get ripples, and you can see these ripples. Well, there are ripples coming off of this “water line,” and they’re all partitioned based on what many people already know about, the golden mean ratio. And every time we punch through one of these walls, we get huge earthquakes, we get the fall of major civilizations, we get the arising of new spiritual teachings. And we get the arising of new forms of measuring time.

AB: And this is a cycle that repeats…

DW: It implodes into 2012. Meaning that the closer we get to 2012, the more frequently we’re gonna hit these walls.

AB: So it’ll come in waves.

DW: Right.

RH: See, the difference between David’s model and mine is probably the razor blade upon which this whole idea is balanced.

AB: Well, I guess it’s very important, isn’t it Richard. You’re saying the energy is within the planets, that … that it’s extra-dimensional

RH: No, no, no, no …

DW: No, no, that’s not what he’s saying.

RH: What I’m saying is the trigger mechanism to access it is different than David’s model. David is using Russian work, which basically says, “We move from one region of the Galaxy to another.”

AB: One into another, and we’re gonna run into this energy.

RH: I’m saying that even if we didn’t have a Galaxy -- if the Earth and the Sun existed all by its lonesome -- these changes would still be going on.

AB: As a result of ?

RH: Ah. Of “modulation by the movements of the [other] planets around the sun” – particularly, some big guys way out there in the dark that have not yet been rediscovered by modern 21st century science. They act like potentiometers – ratcheting up and ratcheting down this energy, you know, gated in from higher dimensional space.

AB: Would one of those be the infamous Planet X?

RH: Yes, but it’s not on a “collision course,” it’s on a circular orbit, more or less. It’s permanently out there. There may be another one. If you do the numbers, it looks like we probably need two. They’re in very, very long orbits ….

This new little tiny asteroid they discovered, Sedna, the other day, and announced. Don’t you find it rather curious that (and again, we know we have a Space Agency that’s dealing in “rituals,” in “symbolism” and “hidden messages”) this thing [Sedna] has an orbital period of 11,500 years? This happens to be the Bauval age -- when Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval think that civilization, you know, last peaked on Earth and built the pyramids, and had high technology, and was wiped out by some ”massive terrestrial cataclysm.”

DW: Quite intriguing.

RH: And .. and -- wait for the good stuff.

Do you know where the name “Sedna” comes from? It’s the Inuit goddess of victims! The press said it was “goddess of the sea,” but when you actually read the legends, she’s the goddess of victims.

It’s kind of like the “in-crowd” are projecting that, because of these planetary movements in this time frame, on a cyclic, recurring pattern, there will be more victims, Art. So we have a separation. We have the in-crowd that may know a little more than they’re letting out in these papers. We then have the science community publishing all these observations, and then we have David and myself putting the data together and saying, “Wait a minute. It’s a different picture than the mainstream is conveying to you, and much more serious -- and we’ve got to pay very close attention.

AB: This is sort of a side question. But Isaac in Portland, Maine, asks this: he says, “Fascinating interview. But I can’t help but think that all this increased energy and global change throughout the solar system is having a social impact on humans.”

RH: Oh, he is right on.

DW: Absolutely.

RH: David, you wanna take this, and then I’ll give it whack?

DW: Sure, I’d love to do that one. One of the ways that we can most benefit from this knowledge that we’re sharing tonight is in understanding how we can actually harness the energy for ourselves, how we can use it. It just so happens that there is a way in which we could help to solve the problems of the biosphere [with this knowledge], the problems that are going to be shown in this 125-million-dollar blockbuster, The Day After Tomorrow. We’re not helpless. And if there’s one thing that Richard and I can do, it’s to put aside any weird little differences we have in a hypothesis—

RH: (Laughs)

DW: --and get down to the truth.

So, when we’re talking about biology, we’re talking about something that links together whatever your different hypotheses are to some sort of common ground. Now, it appears that when the Martians put together the Cydonia plateau, they told us about the Physics -- but they also might have been telling us about “the Physics” -- because they knew that, on a predictable, cyclical pattern, the kind of changes that we’re seeing right now … would be happening [again]. They may have also given us the solution -- in that the actual message is encoded in giant pyramids.

AB: Well, if they had “the solution” -- then why are they gone!?

DW: I think they basically started doing it too late. I think they discovered the technology too late, they started to build the pyramids because they knew what they would do, but they hadn’t started it soon enough and they ran out of time.

RH: I have a little different take on it, Art.

AB: All right.

RH: And again, we’re leaping now to the end of the story – and, you know I hate doing that. I like to document it, so people can get to where we’re going [independently].

AB: Right, just play along.

RH: No, I can do that.

I think that the Mars [situation is a testament] to what human beings have done, over and over and over again -- which is to basically kill themselves off! I think we’re looking at the end product of a cataclysmic war -- which wound up with the literal destruction of some [planetary] members of the ancient solar system! And when that happened, this Physics -- which used to work like a well-oiled machine, like a perfectly tuned Accutron watch -- became broken.

Now, here’s where you have to understand a little bit [more] of how the Physics works. It isn’t a static [solid] geometry. In other words, we’re not looking at “tetrahedrons” and planets with, you know, vertices [i.e. tips of the tetrahedron, as if it were a physical structure inside the Earth, or other planets] poking out through the crust. We’re looking at resonance patterns in the aether, mediating the energy between dimensions. So it’s kind of like sound waves, or any other kind of wave form. You get what are called “standing wave patterns.” And those patterns can look solid [like an embedded geometric structure], but in fact, they’re all energy. They’re just basically “patterns of energy in empty space.”

AB: Well, that sounds an awful lot like David was describing. The Russian’s area -- that we’re going to be “bumping into.”

RH: But the “empty space” I’m talking about … I’m talking about the space of the solar system. Forget the Galaxy, and just think about the solar system. The nine (plus maybe two more) planets, orbiting around the sun (with little satellites orbiting around them). As they wheel around each other, these energy patterns caused by the spinning of each of the massive planets [together with their orbiting motions], cause David’s “ripples in the pond.” That’s an excellent analogy, all right.

But, imagine if you had moving ripples on a stationary pond, where you have overlapping rings. You would have “interference patterns.” You’d have “constructive and destructive interference.” If everything was perfectly positioned and timed, spinning at the right synchronized rate, it would all be like one extraordinary orchestra of music -- something like the most amazing cantata or symphony ever written -- where there’s not one discordant note.

But what happens if you eliminate a major section of the orchestra … blow it up?! Alright?--

You wind up with discordance.

You wind up with waves that interfere, as opposed to constructively reinforcing [each other]. And the solar system [in this Model] that we’re living in, is a “broken solar system” following the Catastrophe, the War … that resulted in the disappearance of “the guys on Mars” … who, eventually, were a tiny fragment of “us” that appeared here.

If that’s true, if we’re living in the decayed ruins of the former glory of a system that [once] worked perfectly, that was perfectly in tune, then, the Physics is [now] “broken” -- and these periodic catastrophes, Art, these upwellings and “massive energy increases,” and all the other things that we’re seeing, are not part of the “normal functioning” of the system; they are because it’s broken. And we must use our knowledge of this Physics -- while we have time! -- to figure out how to fix it on the one place where we are still living … which is namely, “planet Earth!”

DW: We actually have a way to [address these problems on Earth] that does not violate national security, does not reveal unforeseen technological advances, but which could actually reduce or eliminate a lot of the problems that we’re having.

AB: How would you fix it?

DW: You remember the work of Dr. John DeSalvo?

AB: Vaguely.

DW: [He was] talking about the Giza Pyramids, and that there were scientists in Russia who have built these 144-foot-tall pyramids [with a steep 75-degree slope angle unlike the 52-degree angle of the Great Pyramid] out of [cheap] fiberglass and PVC plastic [tubing]. [No metal can be used in the construction of these pyramids or else the effects do not occur.] And basically, some of the things that have happened, include things that would really be able to help the environment in such a dramatic way that it seems pretty clear that any planet, when it gets to a certain level of sophistication, is naturally going to make use of this [advanced hyperdimensional technology].

AB: What are you suggesting could be done with a “pyramid?” What in the experiments that the Russians did would suggest that the “pyramids” have the power to do anything at all?

DW: Okay, let’s say for example that we want to save the oil fields. We want to get more oil out of the ground, while we’re making a transition to free energy.

AB: Okay.

DW: There was an academy in Moscow known as the Gubkin Moscow Academy of Oil and Gas. They built some pyramids over [their domestic Russian] oil wells -- and they discovered that the viscosity, the thickness of the oil under the pyramids, decreased by 30 percent. This also caused an increase in production by 30 percent -- compared to all the surrounding wells.

AB: Easier to bring up.

DW: Yep.

RH: And domestically [in the United States], we have huge [numbers of] oil wells in the Midwest, in Texas, in the Panhandle, in Oklahoma … that have basically stopped producing at an economic level -- because they’re basically sludge.

AB: You’re saying we need big pyramids over them?

RH: If this were tried here in the United States, and had the same results as happened in the old Soviet Union, we could go domestically for a lot of what we’re importing now [from the tinder box of the Middle East] -- and we could reduce our dependence and all the concomitant problems that [this] is currently engendering.

AB: All right, hold it right there gentlemen. Richard C. Hoagland and David Wilcock are my guests. We’re discussing a universal energy source that we’re right in the middle of. It’s all around us. We’re also, of course, discussing the death -- the murder -- of Eugene Mallove, somebody who was leading the charge toward that energy. Bad news for this night. I’m Art Bell.

(Commercial break)

AB: Interesting. Bob in Lincoln, Nebraska says that Richard has relied too much on Science. Bob from Lincoln says, “We are the ones that are broken. We are the ones that are broken, not the universe. We are the energy of everything. All that is.” Now, that’s a slightly, perhaps, egotistical point of view but who knows?

RH: Well, let me address Bob, okay? Because we didn't say “the Universe is broken.” I said this solar system. We are one solar system--

AB: It’s all that will matter to us anyway…

RH: --out of four hundred billion stars in the Milky Way alone. But we’re one place where we know we’re alive and conscious, and we now have astonishing evidence that “something came before.” That’s why I was so gratified that Gene really, really -- before he died – got, unmistakably, that this [extraterrestrial archaeology] is science, we’ve got the data, and he was feeling that we were on the verge of a breakthrough in our area [of proving a former, incredibly advanced civilization on Mars]. Like he said [in that same phone call] he thought he was on the verge of [a political] breakthrough in this [new energy/cold fusion] area -- where he fought so many years … and so hard.

AB: If you go to where these pyramids are here on Earth, Richard, you encounter a man known as Zahi Hawass.

RH: Ah, yes, yeah.

AB: And I stood in the desert next to one of the-- next to the Great Pyramid, actually. And Dr Zahi said [Art speaks in mock Egyptian accent:] “If you thinks these are machines, then you are cra-zee, as all of the other conspiratorial people on the globe in the Earth right now. They are crazy! This is not a machine…” I couldn’t even imitate his voice, “…it was built by Egyptians. It’s not even this and that. But it’s not a machine, it’s a joke!”

RH: Art, Art, the pyramids were “machines”. They were an astonishing legacy of a super science, a hyper-imensional science that Gene and I were discussing … that came and went -- and probably was left as kind of the terrestrial marker for the kind of science that we have to reinvent, if we are going to save ourselves as the years progress.

AB: Do you recall, as the year 2000 came about, you two, as we were coming up to the “Big Change,” Zahi said that there was going to be a capstone put back on the Great Pyramid?

DW: I remember that.

AB: That was a big deal. I talked to Zahi about that and his eyes got bright and he was so excited…

RH: Do you know why it was a “big deal?”

AB: Well, I’m thinking you’ll tell me.

DW: Esoteric symbolism.

RH: Exactly. If you go to enterprisemission.com (and David will give a plug for his website [www.ascension2000.com]), but if you go to Enterprise tonight you’ll find a multi-chaptered saga which we titled “The End of Days”. I think we’ve got five parts of it up there now, and we’re working on a sixth. We started doing it at the 2000 crossing point, because we noticed, among other things, that Zahi was very, very eager to have this high level celebration--

AB: He was, yes.

RH:--in the desert, around the pyramids, on 2000. That was the same moment, by the way -- when we crossed from 1999 to 2000 -- and you and I shared that night, remember, Art?, where we found that the Ball that’s lowered at Times Square had exploded into this stunning, multi-faceted, spinning tetrahedral symbol, which has all these little tetrahedrons spinning around. The”in-crowd” was telling us -- right on global television -- “This is how the world and the background of reality really works. So there -- take it, there’s nothing you can do with it -- because we hold it.

AB: All right. I have more trouble with symbology, and I don’t always see it…

RH: Let me finish.

AB: Like I don’t see the stuff [on Mars], I see the rocks and…

RH: We don’t want rumors of a feud to start! Let me finish.

AB: All right, sure.

RH: When I started looking at the celestial mechanics, because -- remember, in our model of the Physics -- it’s all timed to celestial positions within and around the solar system—

--by the way, with one homage to David, the Galaxy is important -- but only in terms of the center of mass, the Center of the Galaxy. The solar system is slowly moving into an alignment on the Winter Solstice in the Northern Hemisphere, on December 21, 2012, with the center of the Milky Way – the biggest spinning mass of our neighborhood--

DW: Yep, he’s right.

RH: --so to speak. Only 26,000 light years away.

It’s these spinning masses that trigger the shifts and the ducting of energy. And if the system is not capable of handling it -- if the energy is dissonant, if “the music] is off key… think of “running fingernails over a blackboard.”

AB: Try to explain to me how pyramids, properly placed -- and I presume operating with capstones or whatever -- would affect this otherwise discordan

RH: That’s not what Zahi was trying to do.  What Zahi was trying to do was strictly symbolic.

AB: I know what Zahi, I know what Zahi was … what I’m asking is, though—

RH: Well, let me, can I finish where we were going?

AB: Yes.

RH: Because, as we were looking at this run-up to 2012, and how any of this could make sense to any rational person, I tripped over a remarkable piece of astronomical information.

A key factor in the whole Egyptian mythology and cosmology is the star Sirius, right?

AB: Mm hm.

RH: She stands for “Isis -- the goddess of fertility,” and “the mother of Mankind,” and all that.

AB: Yes.

DW: The Statue of Liberty.

RH: Yeah. If you imagine that we have lines going from the North Pole from the South Pole, going across the Equator -- like the line at Greenwich, where the day begins -- that’s the modern equivalent of the ancient line that went from the pole down through the Great Pyramid, and [on] down to the South Pole. That used to be the [Prime] Meridian of the Earth.

So, what I did was, I set up a calculation and I looked out as if I was standing in the King’s chamber [of the Great Pyramid], and the Pyramid was transparent. I was looking towards the south, at midnight, on that “magic night” [December 31, 1999] -- when Zahi wanted to do his Big Ceremony… and by the way, invite about half of the big wigs from all over the planet, including George Bush Sr., and the Prince of Wales, and God knows who else, in that desert ceremony. You knew that was part of the plan, right?

AB: I knew it was magnificent, yes.

RH: The biggest party ever thrown. But it was the wrong date! The Millennium, as we know, was 2000 to 2001. Not “1999 to 2000.” And no wiggling the figures can make a fact “wrong” or “right” -- the numbers are “the numbers.” So I kept asking myself, “Why do they want to have this huge planetary party on the wrong night? A year ahead of when it should be taken care of …?”

It turned out very simply that that was the night for the only time -- get this David -- in galactic history, when Sirius crossed the Meridian, the ancient Giza Meridian -- precisely at midnight.

DW: Aha!

RH: From then on, it is to the East of the Meridian (and it was to the West before). So that was like a dividing line...

AB: I know this has great meaning for Richard, but I…

RH: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We’re not getting to the good stuff yet.

If you look at that line -- where it is in the sky -- and you extend that line (like a celestial Meridian) out into space … so it goes through, you know, where Sirius is in the sky, if you track twelve degrees to the East -- one degree per year (which is how Sirius will move, in relation to the Earth, and in relation to the Galactic Center) -- when that alignment occurs at midnight at 2012 -- that will be the Winter Solstice, and “D-Day” will have arrived!

In other words, that [planned Giza 2000] Ceremony marked the beginning of a 12-year [countdown] “clock!”

DW: Right -- I got it!

RH: The final countdown to “something” … happening in 2012 -- by these guys, led by Zahi, who know “something” …  that they are not wanting the rest of us to figure out!

AB: All right, I’m going to try to ask again. What I want to know, Richard is [this.] You both have indicated that these pyramids have the potential to save the planet from what otherwise is going to occur; to use this energy…

RH: Okay, what’s the most massive catastrophe you could imagine on Earth?

AB: An unaltered, continued course that we’re on right now!

DW: (Laughs)

RH: Okay, I’m not talking human-generated. I’m not talking social devolution or people fighting, or resources, or--

AB: Well, I’m not sure it’s not all mixed up together, because it is.

RH: I’m talking big natural catastrophe. What’s the biggest natural catastrophe you could imagine for this planet?

AB: I could imagine a lot of them Richard, I…

RH: The biggest one… come on…

DW: OK, I’ll say it. Pole shift.

RH: Exactly.

AB: Okay, fine.

RH: If the pole flips over … we are a 78% surface area of water. You get what’s called the “slosh effect” -- and oceans slosh over the continents at a thousand miles per hour, scouring everything down to bedrock! The atmosphere whistles across the plains at a thousand miles an hour, scouring everything down to bedrock. There’s almost nothing left … if the planet physically flips over in space. I’m not talking a magnetic shift, I’m talking a physical flip from one obliquity orientation – dramatically, in a heartbeat -- to another obliquity orientation!

AB: And again my question is: how do we prevent this catastrophic event from occurring? What is it that “pyramids” do, and how do they do it? What do we know about that?

RH: Well, here’s where we get interesting. What we believe the pyramids were trying to do -- built by the prior civilization -- and when I say “we,” I mean me, and Hancock, and Bauval -- and I don’t know if David and I were talking about this … I don’t know whether David is even on the same--

DW: Yeah, we’re on the same page here.

RH: Okay, I might have imagined! You know [Art], we’re coming at this from two different directions -- but we’re parallel here.

What the pyramids were trying to do, Art, was stave off -- through resonance vibrations, connecting to hyperspace -- the catastrophic interference pattern that results in the Earth literally flipping over, seeking what’s called “a new degree of freedom.” When you have -- think of the model of the atom -- when you have electrons orbiting around protons in hydrogen--

AB: Yes.

RH: And every once in awhile, you’ll have a little electron go flip. It does that because it cannot handle the energy coming into in its current state. It must change its orientation to an anti-parallel spin, so that it “equalizes out the waves” … so that the “music” is harmonious, as opposed to discordant. It really is kind of like “celestial music” ….

What seems to happen is, in the “broken condition” of the solar system, the broken condition of the Earth, when the energy [starts] mounting in the background -- which is what all this planetary data that we are now [compiling shows us, which] we’re going to put on the Enterprise website in a three part series, beginning in the next couple of days… (We’ve got part one up there tonight. You can go to enterprisemission.com and read it, it’s right at the top of the page.) We’ll have the two parts showing all the data, all the sources, all the institutions, all the evidence [to prove] that “something” BIG is building up all over the solar system ….

When that “building crescendo” hits -- the Earth can’t take it. It must do “something,” physically, to reorient itself to the frequencies and the vibration of the energy, because [otherwise] it’s a “massive overload.” It’s like a huge short-circuit. So, what it does is it reorients its physical spin axis. It also changes the rate of the day length (and it may even change the orbit a little bit) -- but the primary effect is, it reorients the spin axis, where most of the energy is stored … and then it comes to equilibrium again … for the next 12,000-plus years. We do not want that to happen!

That is “bad for beagles and begonias,” as Carl Sagan used to say. It wipes out almost everybody when this “hits the fan!”

So what do the ancients try to do? They try to build, in essence, a “modulator” -- an energized modulator, which is the Great Pyramid, made of limestone, six million tons of limestone.  Connected to God knows how many gigatons of [more] limestone, in a band of seventy-million-year old limestone [that] stretches from Giza all the way to Indonesia in the crust of the Earth. Ancient, ancient, ancient coral reefs. This material, the limestone, is an operative, active, hyperdimensional medium.

 

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