Wednesday, July 27, 2005

Return to Flight ... A Tale of Tiles ....

STS-114 Mission Commander, Eileen Collins, had a curious request fulfilled this "morning" (it was actually last evening, 11:39 PM, July 26th, Houston time ...) -- when Mission Control "uplinked" its first selection of traditional wake-up music for the Discovery crew ... to begin their second day "on orbit":


Before launch, Collins had requested for their first day's wake-up, a selection of specific music -- from the Bill Murry hit comedy of a few years ago, "Groundhog Day."

The "inside joke" was supposed to be that -- by finally launching successfully from Cape Canaveral yesterday morning -- Collins and her whole Discovery crew had "escaped from the NASA-Groundhog Day-type timeloop" that had kept them all "in quarantine since the scrub of their original launch, two weeks ago, on July 13th."

As I watched this "explanation" live over NASA Television from the high desert here in New Mexico, I couldn't help thinking that Eileen Collins was really trying to say something MUCH more profound ... about the entire U.S. Space Program ....

For--

What struck me even earlier yesterday morning, watching the "picture perfect" launch of the first Space Shuttle to climb into orbit in over two and a half years, was that we're ALL stuck in "a NASA-created, Groundhog Day" type timeloop!

And we've been stuck in it ... for over 50 years!

* * *

These strange feelings began as I watched throughout the night (over the NASA satellite link, from more than 2000 miles away ...) what I'd once witnessed "up close and personal" while covering these launches for good ol' CBS: the seemingly hectic and disorganized preparations "at the Cape" for yet another NASA mission; the blur of sights and sounds of engineers, scientists, and other NASA management and personnel -- to say nothing of the press -- gathering once more from all over the world to launch another crew of Americans from the Nation's only "Spaceport."

Many of us who had covered NASA during those events, and across all-too-many-years, had likened this "pre-launch, all-night ritual" to a kind of recurring "interplanetary Woodstock."

On satellite television late last night, it sure looked and felt like I remembered ....

* * *

Multiple television network "cabanas," built on the small hill overlooking the formerly dirt and gravel parking lot (where we used to park our fleet of rental cars ...), now filled with countless "remote trucks" -- television units from all over the United States (if not a good part of the Planet ...), each topped with the inevitable "uplink" ....

Then ... across this amazing "sea of dishes" loomed the might "VAB" -- that huge Vertical Assembly Building (still the largest structure in the world!) -- where, more than two generations ago, NASA had assembled Von Braun's amazing Saturn 5's ... then and now, the worlds most powerful vehicle ever built ... the rocket which, almost 40 years ago, had launched from here a dozen elite astronauts on their amazing roundtrip journeys to the surface of the Moon.

Farther out ... across three and a half miles of pitch-black "palm trees, grass and alligators"... lay the launch pads of the Saturn 5's themselves. In my mind -- seeing Pad 39-B in the distance, over-exposed like that, pinioned in the blinding lights of dozens of those million-candle-power klieg lights against the humid Florida night -- it was a Saturn 5 out there ... and not a NASA Shuttle ... about to send another crew of Apollo heros to the Moon ....

Only the intrusion of those damn satellite remote trucks spoiled the illusion.

It all came back as I watched those NASA TV cameras pan the scene ... the same bustle of immense energeies about to be released ... the same excitment before a coming launch ... the same launch vehicle bathed in those familiar starward stabbling flood lights ... the same VAB.

Only one thing was ultimately different, as I came slowly back to where we really were: all this activity was focused on the Shuttle -- which, unlike the behemouths I'd personally witnessed repeatedly leaving for another planet, decades earlier, would -- even if successfully launched on time, this time ... once again, only endlessly circle in Earth orbit ....

* * *

Where had we gone so wrong? Why, in the 21st century -- after almost 50 years of doing this (!) -- was the feeling of this place ... this technology ... the press covering the story ... even the Agency itself ... so much the same?!

And why were we still so worried about tiles ...?

I flashed on my first Shuttle launch from this same place I'd seen firsthand: the first flight of Columbia ... STS-1 ... in 1981.

That was also the first time I was inteviewed (and ultimately wound up working for) CNN ... years after my Apollo stint at CBS.

The Shuttle External Tank then was actually painted white!

Only later, did some smart guy realize that -- if they didn't paint the tank -- they could literally save several thousand pounds of excess weight ... and take that weight as extra payload into orbit ... in the Shuttle ... instead of on the Tank!

Learning curves ....

This was also the flight where we first learned to dread "the Tiles" -- or, in NASA-speak, the Shuttle's critical "Thermal Protection System" (TPS).

After that first launch of STS-1 -- Columbia -- on April 12, 1981, the crew soon spotted (and sent down via on-board television, images of) several missing tiles ... on the rear "OAMS pods" of the Columbia Orbiter itself (below the vertical tail ...).

This immediately raised the spectre of additional "missing tiles" on the underside (the belly) of Columbia ... where there was no means (back then ...) of checking the extent of any losses of these essential Shuttle elements -- the only means of shielding the returning spacecraft from the searing heat of reentering the atmosphere from orbit.

This revelation, in turn, launched a veritable "feeding frenzy" in the press, regarding "the dire consequences of even one crucially-placed 'missing tile' on the fate of the returning Shuttle ... and her crew."

It was only after Columbia had returned safely from her mission, and did not burn up, that we learned that key spy satellites ("intelligence assets," as NASA termed them) had been pressed into quiet, covert service on Columbia's behalf -- to photograph the critical underside of NASA's first Space Shuttle while in orbit ... to verify that all the tiles were there ....

They were.

Now, jump ahead a quarter of a century ... to July 26, 2005. And, what is the topic of the day ...?

Why ... missing Shuttle tiles!

The fact that a new television camera on the Tank, looking at the underside of Discovery as she "rumbled toward Earth orbit" (in the words of AP's story ...) apparently has shown "a piece of heat shield tile breaking off from the underside of the shuttle ... [leaving] a one-and-a-half inch white spot near the nose landing gear doors ..." (below), once again has sent the assembled press into a flurry of stories, painting "dark possibilities" for the "Return to Flight Mission," if not the ultimate safety of the astronauts themselves.


How is this still possible ... a full quarter of a century after the first Space Shuttle Mission of Columbia ... and its continuing problem -- ultimately fatal -- with "the tiles?"

Because, as Eileen Collins was sublty reminding us last night, for that last quarter of a century -- if not for the full half century since NASA was created -- we have made essentially NO FUNDAMENTAL SCIENTIFIC OR TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS in getting off this planet into Space!!

We're still using the same obsolete rocket technology -- if not the same obsolete vehicles themselves (!) -- as we were using a quarter of a century ago ... to go ... nowhere.

We're stuck in "Groundhog day" ....

And are thereby doomed to relive the same fears and technological impediments which have kept us in Earth orbit since the brief glory of Apollo.

This, of course, is what the President's "new Vision" -- ennunicated just short of a year after the catastrophic demise of Columbia and all her crew ... ironically, to the same bitter fate we all worrried about over twenty years before (!) -- is now supposed to change. But, not if the Space Agency continues to pursue -- as NASA, even after the President's announcement, seemed intent on doing -- the same archaic tools ....



The same obsolete (rocket) technology of "throwing stuff away ... to go nowhere ...."

The one bright glimmer, in an otherwise desolate landscape regarding this stunning lack of any real progress for so long ... was the curious statement made by Mike Griffin yesterday morning, immediately after Discovery's return to space. Griffin is, of course, the new NASA Administrator -- charged by the White House now with carrying out the President's New Vision -- "back to the Moon ... then on to Mars ... and Beyond ...."

After Discovery had successfully achieved Earth orbit, Griffin -- at the obligatory "congratulatory press conference" about an hour after launch -- cautioned the packed auditorium of assembled media and press not to take Discovery's apparently "easy return to flight" for granted.

He said, in part:

"... I want to ask you all to take note of what you saw here today.


"The power and the majesty of the launch, of course, but also the competence and the professionalism, the sheer gaul, the pluckiness and grittiness of this Team -- that pulled this Program out of the depths of despair two and a half years ago, and made it fly.


"I want you to think about what it takes to get millions of different parts, from thousands of vendors across the Country, to work together to produce what you saw here today. To realize how chancy it is, how difficult it is ... at what a primitive state of technology it still is ....
Apparently, one key area where we have made some progress in these last fifty years ... is, finally, a NASA Administrator who has actual humility -- in the face of the real technological "miracle" represented by the current sorry state of what's laughingly called "space technology" (the miracle that it can actually get people into space!) ... and who, apparently, also truly understands what we must do technologically to achieve the President's New Vision.

Get rid of those incredibly complicated, if not equally primitive (and deadly) devices known as "rockets!"

This is not the first time Michael Griffin has hinted that what's needed for real access to space, if not Humanity's long-term expansion into and survival on the "High frontier," is a truly "better and advanced space technology" ....

But, will he act -- as NASA Administrator -- to bring about this critical technological transition ... and in time?

By all means, stay tuned ....


-0-

337 Comments:

thomas said...

Richard

Look at how long the combustible engine has been around...since the 1890's...What happened to all of the advanced technologies invented by many creative individuals over the past decades that have been 'suppressed' by the ruling elite?..Where have the advanced technologies gone that would clean up the planet?..Enhance our lives?..It still takes 5 hours plus to go from New York to LA...18 hrs to Hong Kong...Look at the homes and living environments...Look at how most of the people on this planet live? It's not just old technology re: 'rockets to nowhwere'...it's prevelant ...globally...why? Because advanced technology leads automatically to 'higher consciousness'...and that's what the Anunnaki & the ruling cabal's did not want....a expanding global consciousness...Look at what the Internet has done?.. and that's only a few years old!

Fortunately, this planet is about to experience a quantum leap in consciousness and technology that will rapidly lead us into our 'new reality'...First Contact is soon upon us....The 'cruise to nowhere' has docked....

It's almost 'Showtime'.....

27/7/05 9:30 AM  
Eddy Mc said...

Eddy McAvoy a UK fan of Ent.mission.com; If as some people believe (Dr. Greer et.al.) we (USA dark-ops)already have over-equity sytems/craft that can and have flown to the Moon and Mars and back, then why would NASA spend billions on updating "rocket" flight other than to preserve the secret of back engineered craft etc.,

27/7/05 9:38 AM  
Professor X said...

>>> But, will he act -- as NASA
>>> Administrator -- to bring
>>> about this critical
>>> technological transition ...
>>> and in time?

>>> By all means, stay tuned ....

I highly doubt that he or NASA will bring anything new anytime soon. What are they going to bring? They don't have anything to bring to begin with, which is the problem.

With current technology we can go back to the Moon and maybe, maybe to Mars, but that is about it. Where else can humans really go?

27/7/05 9:39 AM  
Anonymous said...

When I look at my iron or teflon skillet on top of the stove, I don't see it made up of sectional tiles. Why risk the chance of even one tile falling off the shuttle. Can't they develop a 'spray on' coating, similar to the protective composition of the tiles, and thus provide a uniform seam-free heat barrier, even if it would still require repairs after re-entry?

27/7/05 9:41 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Anonymous,

>When I look at my iron or teflon skillet on top of the stove, I don't see it made up of sectional tiles. Why risk the chance of even one tile falling off the shuttle. Can't they develop a 'spray on' coating, similar to the protective composition of the tiles, and thus provide a uniform seam-free heat barrier, even if it would still require repairs after re-entry?<

You'd think .... :)

What's WRONG with this picture? And ... in 50 YEARS ...?

27/7/05 10:13 AM  
Koby said...

"Eddy McAvoy a UK fan of Ent.mission.com; If as some people believe (Dr. Greer et.al.) we (USA dark-ops)already have over-equity sytems/craft that can and have flown to the Moon and Mars and back, then why would NASA spend billions on updating "rocket" flight other than to preserve the secret of back engineered craft etc.,"

I think the banking tycoon J.P. Morgan, said it best as he withdrew funding, "If anyone can draw on the power, where do we put the meter?"
--- Think of the suppliers and jobs lost at NASA alone when you have a delivery vehicle that consumes nothing and takes 10% of the people to upkeep it. Not to mention what that would ultimately insist in the private sector.


"What's WRONG with this picture? And ... in 50 YEARS ...?"
-- Everything and nothing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Business (and that's what it's all about) is good.

27/7/05 10:33 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Congratulation for the best blog theme ever since, today.
Look, what I think of exactly this topic is maybe not mainstream, but I believe in logic. And logic tells me this: the SR-71 was flying in the sixties and seventies, and was revealed to public when it was just about to be grounded. The silver bug is a US project from the fifties, and as far as I know it was a success of sort. Now we have about 40 years of unknown, while "billions and billions" (!) of US dollars have been spent on R&D (black project, skunk works etc.), about which we just know nothing. Do we really believe nothing could came out of that? Aurora project, the black triangle, only wild fantasies (dreams)? I think there must be something real behind this all. Only, coverup is a quite accurate practice, when national security is involved. And the bad of all this is, we don't even know how to get closer to the truth. Unless as an act of good will some insider takes the decision to allow some ... leaks. Maybe revealing the use of peculiar overunity equipment somehow hidden in CURRENT NASA spacaecraft.
... Wait and see?

27/7/05 10:45 AM  
Enterprise Lurker said...

We are still launching satellites and interplanetary probes with Altas boosters (first successfully flown in 1957) Delta boosters (first successfully flown in 1958)and Titan boosters (first successfully flown in 1960.)

For that matter, Boeing is still building the 737 which first flew in 1967!

Why is it so unusual that we are still using the Space Shuttle (first successfully flown in 1981)?

27/7/05 11:06 AM  
augmentation said...

But i guess the rocket is still what is in the eralm of possiblities right now. What other technology IS currently available for use right now to get into space? No immediate technology is avaialble, none! The plasma jets and ion propulsion, etc are still FAR away in terms of being even usable...do you want them to sacrifice the flight until we could have that technology available?..which could still be years apart. Now why they didn't do this earlier? I cannot and will not argue about that. Thigns have been slow..and i don't see us going back to the moon anytime before 15 years from now.

27/7/05 11:28 AM  
Anonymous said...

Another insightful and relevant piece of analysis Richard. Thanks for placing the significance of the current shuttle mission in historical context. The significance being that this current mission is not so significant when put into historical context. We're still using with old launch technology (rockets) and dealing with old problems (tiles) -- 25 years after the first shuttle launch! NASA is literally going in circles. Come on NASA with your new Administrator Michael Griffin. Let's move forward and bring something new to space exploration. We're tired of the same old, same old. We need new and fresh ideas and technology if we're going to achieve anything signficant from space exploration going forward. You can do better than this.

27/7/05 11:29 AM  
con las antenitas prendidas said...

Mr. Richard Hoagland,

I am very awed you read and answered my question about the netting. (Not knowing anything about dynamics and resistance etc. I just had an idea).
So I perused the plethora museum of science (Mr. Richard Hoagland, not your age, but your knowledge).

I regret that the USSR did not land on the moon. We (the U.S.A.) would have had more landings, which in turn would have revealed scientific research and nriquecedora....bueno eso
suerte en todo
bye
byecedora....bueno eso
suerte en todo
bye
bye

27/7/05 11:36 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Lurker,

the Shuttle is fine. But there is no progress here. Going to space is fine too, if you feel comfortable with Low Earth Orbit. I confess I was (I am) a fan of Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica (old and new series), Star Wars and even Twilight Zone. I feel suffocating with this Low Earth Orbit stuff. And Skylab was good enough, as a Space Station. Yes, you needed a Saturn to get it on orbit, but then, it was huge. And it was more than enough for a Low Earth Orbit job.
In the beginning of the seventies, I spent hours in front of the TV watching the Apollo EVAs on the Moon surface, every single mission out there. And after that? 30 years of Earth orbit! Forget the Moon, Mars and the spacefaring civilization dream.
Take a young boy, give him a dream and show him that it is so real. Then tell him it is just a dream. Tell him he can forget spaceships flying to the planets and beyond. Well, I tell you, THIS is frustrating. It is negating the dream of freedom for humanity. It is like being obliged to keep the head down instead of watching the stars.
This is why we need to go further. Above, and beyond.

27/7/05 11:42 AM  
J-Man said...

Excellent blog. This is my first time on here. I hear alot of this place on Coast to Coast AM and had to check it out. I'm glad I did!

27/7/05 11:54 AM  
russ said...

Well said Richard. Your very articulate comments on the Return to Flight are inspirational.

27/7/05 11:56 AM  
Massimo IT said...

One word for the astronauts, though. They keep the dream alive. The fly for us all. As they always did. We fly with them. God bless them.

27/7/05 12:07 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Theological input from 'Brian here'

Rockets and cars and old space technology exist as do light bulbs that wear out and car engines that go wrong owing to - thermal decay and us, now a throw it away society

why do we throw things away?

Because our countries and economy are fueled by consumption.

If everyone consumed less, there would be less people making money.

Less tax money for goverments to spend on military and other programs.

In fact, the world would be a quieter place... hmmmm

maybe too quiet for anyone wanting to start something *MASSIVE*

So my rant is pointing at what...

Why do lightbulbs wear out?

Simply because of thermal decay. The tungsten filament, that glows when electricity is passed through it, gets hot and eventually litterally burns out.

Engineering this through, we would know that the width of a piece of tungsten, would equal the amount of time the light would burn through and it's subsequent brightness.

It's also interesting to note, that engineering can of course know exactly how long a width of a piece of tungsten takes to burn out.

Say 1mm wide piece of tungsten might take three weeks to burn through

Taking this to it's next level.

Engineers therefore know the exact amount of tungsten to use to give a lightbulb a long and indefinately lasting life.

Hmmmm rant nearly over, and please correct me on any technical glitches in the above statements.

So therefore, the light bulb produced today, burns out quickly therefore making the lightbulb user have to replace them more quickly and spend MONEY doing so...

I seem to remember the American dream as being big, car and house.

Car's are another consumable and to cut my rant short, OIL...

Summary;

We live in a consumption world, held back by individuals who want to keep *all* the money and power to themselves...

Rockets will not be discontinued, utnill the obsession with money is stopped!

"I'm not the doom bringer, I'm the doom bringers son, I'm just here prophesying doom, till the doom bringer comes..."

'Brian'

27/7/05 12:09 PM  
Gerry said...

Perhaps Nasa has done the risk analysis and found that a Mars mission may be technically feasible with natrual evolution of currents systems but the total risk compounded and extended over the years to complete gives rise to an unnacceptable potential for failure. Given NASA's low appetite for risk the conventional approach would be to overengineer each component but total costs would rise exponentially . It might be just too risky/costly.

China or India on the other hand may have a risk appetite much more relaxed allowing not just fraction reductions in overall resources but orders of magnitude by compromising not just reliability of systems but quality of life for crews. Nasas high precision single shot approach would lose out to a scattergun alternative.

Given that there arent going to be any skyhook options avaiable maybe we need to be thinking of not so much the Right Stuff as the Wrong Stuff. Are there a breed of future astronauts that would accept the real possibility of one way missions?

27/7/05 12:10 PM  
Enterprise Lurker said...

Massimo,

I am 46 years old, and I watched the first landing on the moon and knew more about LEMs and Command Modules and Service Modules and Trans Lunar Injection than any adult I knew. I literally soaked up NASA speak. I even lived in Cocoa Beach for a too-brief one year and watched (and felt!) Apollo 13 lift off.

I am a fan of all those shows as well. My point was that yes, we are still flying the Shuttle, just like we are still flying those other boosters and still flying jet aircraft that were originally designed in the late '50s and '60s.

But they are not the same crafts. The Shuttle uses the same tile system, same booster system, and same main engine system, but the flight electronics and hardware have been modified, retrofitted, and rebuilt over the years to the point that today's Discovery is not the same machine as 1981's Columbia.

Have you noticed that in the history of manned flight, we made great strides from 1903 to 1953, then we have been stuck with more or less the same propulsion systems and flight performance since then? We developed fly-by-wire systems, glass cockpits, and tweak the jet engine for more power and fuel efficiency, but we have not seen the great strides in raw performance that we saw from 1903 to 1953 which took us from the Wright Flyer's 30 mph to the F-100 Super Sabre's 860 mph.

We are in a plateau in jet travel, and we are in a plateau in space travel. Even the much celebrated Bert Rutan used nothing more than a high powered model rocket engine on his SpaceShipOne, burning Nitrous Oxide and rubber.

27/7/05 12:14 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Enterprise... "...and rebuilt over the years to the point that today's Discovery is not the same machine as 1981's Columbia.

Dude your not kidding, did you see they strapped a "Laptop", to fix the four sensor problems with this shuttle...

www.goo

A LAPTOP come on... they are kidding right...

I mean they flew Apollo missions with less Computing power than my desktop computer here...

The mind boggles as to what we will be told to believe...

And another thing, the world is in a terrorist war...

Why are we launching shuttles and talking about 'Natalie Hollaway missing, when 21 people or so have died in the MASSIVE USA wide heatwave.

Why arent the stories of massive 'Golf ball sized hail' falling out of massive thunderstorms over the East of the USA being covered by CNN?

I believe many people who think that Psyops are at work in the media today and believe that the media is controlled and is 'told' what to report and NOT report...

For instance, TWO helicopters crashed near the UN a month ago within a week of each other, no reason no explanation...

NO Follow up in the news - anywhere

another interesting point raised... to not diminish the Natalie Holloway case, is that would the Media react in the same way if Aruba lost an Aruban citizen in the USA?

Just questions and thoughts...

http://news.google.com.ag/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=laptop+shuttle+sensor

27/7/05 12:33 PM  
Chuck C said...

Hello Richard and fellow readers :)

I enjoyed your nostalgic review of the "hope of missions past" immensely... I too remember STS-1, I was a student at the time and actually recorded it... on my brand new (at the time) analog casette recorder that I placed next to the television (that only received about 12 channels with UHF and VHF combined... through an ANTENNA on the roof)... that pretty much summarizes the theme of obsolescence that you speak of here....

STS-1 was BEFORE everyone had 2 or 3 VCRs in their house (or even 1 in my case)... BEFORE 50 different cable news channels... BEFORE ANY sort of digital recording technology whatsoever (at least any accessible to the public)....

In short, my point is;

That cassette recorder has long since disappeared in favor of DVD burners and TiVo, network TV has succumbed to the whims of cable and satellite television, yet we STILL base our primary hopes of space exploration on the old, decrepit, and obsolete (though tenderly remembered) vehicle that I first saw 25 years ago riding piggyback on a jet airliner...

thank GOODNESS the IMPORTANT things have not progressed at such a slow pace ... I would hate to see the kids of today still playing "Pong" on a 12 inch black and white tv instead of "Mortal Death Grand Theft Mario" on their 70 inch Hi-Def Plasma screen!!! What a world THAT would be, huh :(


Its very very comforting to see that you feel the same about this technological stagnancy as I do.

Thanks for letting me rant :)

27/7/05 12:48 PM  
Massimo IT said...

Lurker,
I am 46 too. So we have been living similar emotions ages ago. But now, I simply don't believe we are stuck at a plateau. I was at KSC some times between '88 and '92. All those times, I was not able to watch even a Delta launch. Never mind, anyway, being there was fun enough, there where the Moon flights took off. In the VAB, the shuttle was like a fly on a wall. I could just imagine what the Saturn 5 was. That is my point. I believe that such an available technology could be used for other regular flights to the Moon. Why NASA went back to Earth orbit? Why did they suddenly stop everything? A Moon base with the technology out of the sixties would have been far cheaper than the current Space Station and Shuttle programs. With real manned space flight.
I believe that any real breaktrough for instance in propulsion technology is now deemed too important to be unveiled to the public (national security matters...). That is also why trying to dig these aspects is probably like "fighting the windmills". But it is worth keep on trying, the matter is juicy.

27/7/05 12:53 PM  
Brian C said...

augmentation said...
"The plasma jets and ion propulsion, etc are still FAR away in terms of being even usable"

Ion propulsion has been "usable" since 1998 when Deep Space 1 launched:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/deepspace_propulsion_000816.html

You are correct that it cannot be used to "get into space" though, as it has extremely low thrust power (but exceptional efficiency).

27/7/05 12:54 PM  
Massimo IT said...

Brian C

What if this plasma ions is just what is left to "ordinary" engineering to give technologic placebo to the majority? This ion thrusters and similar stuff are driving me mad since ages. We need tens of tons of thrust for hours or days, come on guys! As a minimum, or we the humans go nowhere. It cannot be fossil fuel, anyway. Research in applied fundamental physics is dead, that is why we climb sweating to low Earth orbit. Let the scientists search, they will find. Or we believe we already know everyting about physics?
But that is also why I don't believe this development of ion or plasma thruster is something really appealing. Just something to keep the engineers busy with. And real research is done somewhere, but under military cover.

27/7/05 1:06 PM  
Enterprise Lurker said...

Massimo,

I'm sure we could reconstruct a Saturn V and return to the Moon. The problem is that you look at a Saturn V rocket, it's 3 stages, (4 if you count the engine in the Service Module) and realize that it is all disposable!

The Shuttle was supposed to remedy that by making the solid rocket boosters recoverable and reusable, and placing the liquid fuel engines on the Orbiter so they too were recovered and reused. Even the Thermal Tile System was chosen so it was reusable. Only the External Tank was expendable, and even those had proposals for use if they were brought all the way to orbit and parked.

Unfortunately, NASA greatly overestimated the reusability of these various components, so we replace many more tiles than we originally planned, and we replace main engines more often than originally planned.

I'm waiting for something like the China Clipper or the Hyper-X to become operational so we can get to orbit much cheaper. Once we lick that first step, then hauling a Mars vehicle up to Earth orbit one piece at a time will be feasable and we can then assemble the craft in orbit. We have developed Ion propulsion for long duration low thrust use, so getting to and from Mars won't be so difficult either.

We need a propulsion revolution like the Aerospike engine to get us out of this darned gravity well, however, before anything else is feasable given today's budget restraints.

27/7/05 1:06 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

"Massimo IT said...
Lurker,
I am 46 too. So we have been living similar emotions ages ago. But now, I simply don't believe we are stuck at a plateau. I was at KSC some times between '88 and '92. All those times, I was not able to watch even a Delta launch. Never mind, anyway, being there was fun enough, there where the Moon flights took off. In the VAB, the shuttle was like a fly on a wall. I could just imagine what the Saturn 5 was. That is my point. I believe that such an available technology could be used for other regular flights to the Moon. Why NASA went back to Earth orbit? Why did they suddenly stop everything? A Moon base with the technology out of the sixties would have been far cheaper than the current Space Station and Shuttle programs. With real manned space flight.
I believe that any real breaktrough for instance in propulsion technology is now deemed too important to be unveiled to the public (national security matters...). That is also why trying to dig these aspects is probably like "fighting the windmills". But it is worth keep on trying, the matter is juicy.

27/7/05 12:53 PM
"

agreed, totally.

I believe we have surpassed this technology a long time ago.

For instance;

1908 Russia
June 30th

An unidentifed flying object crashed into Tunguska.

Why amazing, because of countless tales of a cover up over the materials found at the site.
(I personally relabled it as a now falling and crashing almost unidentied object).

The official story was a meteorite crash as evidence of metalic and other "techinical debrie" was found...

I'm thinking that the 'less obvious' organisations officially reporting the the government of the USA do possess much modern and fancy new technology, however as meer workers, we are simply feeding and financing something larger and told nothing, as it will eventually be the consumption of us too...

What do I mean... not sure, just thinking out loud...

Some more coincidences that I would like help pondering...

H.G.Wells 'War of the worlds II' was released this Month.

This is strange *only* because H.G.Wells was a 33rd degree Freemason.

President Bush is a 33degree Freemason also.

Of course President Bush is that, the president and representative.

He signs papers that allow programs to happen or *not*.

so where am I heading...

OK Simple;

An ex-oil man, with rich family money from the deep oil wells of Texas which are running dry...

Running the country...

Summary

Fancy technology is more likely to be used against 'us' then for us. Unless we find out what is going on in the background...

It's obvious from this next point alone that the goverment does not have any direct control over the supernatural UFO phenomena going on around the world or the series of strange weather coincidences happening and affecting u and me.

People are dying in the current weather climate and NASA is launching sattelites to flight...

Richard you are right...

NASA is in flight...

'Brian'

http://www.google.com.ag/search?hl=en&ned=us&q=1908+comet+russia&ie=UTF-8&lr=&sa=N&tab=nw

27/7/05 1:10 PM  
Anonymous said...

Richard, I find your comments very interesting and sobering. I worked as a young First Lieutenant in the Air Force over 20 years ago as an Orbital Analyst in Cheyenne mountain. One of my jobs was to perform first orbit evaluation of the shuttle against the satellite catalogue of the day. Twenty years later and much doesn't seem to have changed. In fact, from the birth of the automobile and airplane to the first moon landing covered about 70 years. Quite an accomplishment for so short a period of time. The last 35 years have seen practically nothing in the way of advancement in space travel and exploration. Why? This is most frustrating to a former young boy, now jaded middle age man. I've lost confidence in anything science related that has a government label or connection! Thank goodness for organizations like yours (Enterprise Mission) and others.

27/7/05 1:14 PM  
IonTruO2 said...

Hi Richard,
I remember reading that the original shuttle flew with literally a Commodore 64 computer! I had one! My gosh the system people have on their desktops, ie. P4's and G4's today is radically super charged beyond anything that beloved little Commodore 64 could do back then with 64k ram let alone fly consistently in space.
I still feel that they(NASA) are simply showing us the most basic, low grade commercial tug boat, called the shuttle, at this stage. Best for them not to reveal where they really are at, technically speaking. I remember hearing father speak about cruise missiles long long before any one new of them at all, publically. Nothing in depth, just that they existed. In aviation, the track ball was a good example, in use in air traffic control etc. long before it appeared to the public and later in the local video arcade. The original time frame used to be about ten years ahead of the "public denominator" but I think it is fundamentally well beyond that now. My reference earlier to the guy with working examples of the laser pulsed "light ship" presented on Discovery Channel certaintly hints that much much bigger concepts are in advanced development stages.
I guess I'm ranting too, just contributing my two cents worth, or was that 64K worth?! :)

27/7/05 1:16 PM  
Massimo IT said...

Lurker,
You are right, but look at these Russian launchers. They are BIG, cheap and really of a simple design. Being disposable is not bad, if the disposable stuff is very cheap. But this was the old chance. I believe that today we can be back on track quickly. It only needs a bit of good politics and a bit of transfer from (covert) military development into (open) NASA missions.

Pity, I have to go. It was getting interesting. Have fun, I had. Thank you everybody for this nice exchange. Back tomorrow I hope.
Thanks Mr. R. C. hoagland for the great chance and the great site.

27/7/05 1:20 PM  
TempleMaster333 said...

Richard,
you said,
">When I look at my iron or teflon skillet on top of the stove, I don't see it made up of sectional tiles. Why risk the chance of even one tile falling off the shuttle. Can't they develop a 'spray on' coating, similar to the protective composition of the tiles, and thus provide a uniform seam-free heat barrier, even if it would still require repairs after re-entry?<"

Why rely completely on coatings ? Rutan designed SPACESHIP 1 with a "feathering" technique involving a reconfiguration of the wings for a slow descent that avoids much of the high temperature of rentry and the need for tightly controlled descent angles and requires a minimal heat shield.

27/7/05 1:23 PM  
Enterprise Lurker said...

Temple,

Realize that what Burt Rutan designed only went into the upper atmosphere, not into true space. It did not achieve escape velocity, and it did not orbit. His ship would have burned up faster than the ill-fated Columbia did if it were ever placed into low earth orbit and allowed to de-orbit.

SpaceShipOne was nothing more than a thrill ride.

27/7/05 1:27 PM  
Loran said...

Thank you Richard for mentioning the issue of propulsion technology.

It is high time that a real effort should be directed at fostering new developments in this area.

Maybe a mega prize should be awarded similar to the X-prize for the first team to orbit the earth without using a rocket.

We need a kick-ass propulsion system and all that it entails.

27/7/05 1:31 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

"SpaceShipOne was nothing more than a thrill ride."

Small underfunded version?

Imagine what he could do with all the billions of $'s pouring into the 'black book' projects...

Just a thought...

27/7/05 1:32 PM  
IonTruO2 said...

Consider that Gen Corso spoke his truth in "The Day After Roswell". Consider that we barely suppressed and defeated the likes of Germany in the Second World War. So at that time we have the largest army in the world with what we think is absolute "Air Superiority" and all of sudden we find orbs and ufo's buzzing circles around our planes on a regular basis like we are standing still. It was well documented re: the B52's and others chase efforts. What a frightening moment to realize your best military effort Ever is now being superceded easily by something else way more advanced and foreign. No air superiority! Which is rule #1 of engagement and control. So the agenda of military must go super secret when they realize they are not the top technology here, regardless of the origin of the others' buzzing them. So it makes common sense to display a fairly mediocre presentation of our current technology, especially in aviation and most notably space development. This would be even more significant when recognizing that we are probably way behind the "other's" capability, friendly or not. So we appear to be plunking along with our charming little fuel fired Shuttle just playing on the edge of orbit and a few simple outreach programs like to Mars etc. while we quietly push our science forward in utter secrecy as fast as we can. "The fool is rarely focused on, and so we play it well."
Just a stream of a consideration I had that flowed out, hope it's not too irreverent.

27/7/05 1:47 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Richard, another great thread.

I'm now, avidly reading this thread. I'm glad so many people are awake...

"IonTruO2 said... ...So we appear to be plunking along with our charming little fuel fired Shuttle just playing on the edge of orbit and a few simple outreach programs like to Mars etc. while we quietly push our science forward in utter secrecy as fast as we can. "The fool is rarely focused on, and so we play it well."
Just a stream of a consideration I had that flowed out, hope it's not too irreverent."

Love it, had to smile when I read this.

Makes we wonder what the rush is ;)

Could it be in any way that these crafts that are zipping the mighty world military are prophesied about to come, in that dusty old book the bible?

he he he

Still looking and searching for more temple 1 data...

'Brian'

27/7/05 1:58 PM  
Rob in DC said...

In reading through these posts, I see a common undercurrent, one that maybe most have missed - Is NASA is using the most up to date technology that they have available to them? I bet if you were able to look uder the 'facade' of the Shuttle (the outer skin (e.g. solid fuel rockets and tiles, etc.), you would be amazed at the state of the art and of course 'black' technology in use. As one of the posters earlier mentioned, the original shuttle is far far different than today's shuttle. Will we ever see what lies under the surface - no. Do the Astronauts know everything - no. Are there things being tested that they may be unaware of - you better believe it.

This however leads to another question, as to why are we being shielded from the advancements and new developement that have obviously been made over the past 25 to 50 years in 'other' areas? What is the purpose? One may guess that it is much more mundane than shielding us from 'alien' technology or the proving of the existance of other intelligent life, rather it is most likely related to military reasons and the US retaining its competitive advantage over the rest of the world. You better believe that WHEN another country starts regularly launching manned missions and accessing space and beyond, with the current tech that we saw on display with the shuttle, that the US won't pull out some super new (well not the latest and greatest), but a 'new to us' technology that will make whatever country that has tried to usurp our command of space obsolete. Once again giving us competitive advantage and therefore securing our place at the top of the pecking order. Are there other reasons? Most likely ... YES ... but are they of the supernatural alien kind - I highly doubt it. We need to stick to the more conventional and mundane before we take giant leaps of 'faith' in order to explain questions that Richard poses to us on his site.

27/7/05 2:18 PM  
Steve said...

at what a primitive state of technology it still is ....

Very interesting quote. And it's true, of course. If gravity and electromagnetism are unified in hyperdimensional space, then anti-gravity vehicles should be possible to build. Which makes rockets look neanderthal.

And of course it's a sign one spends too much time on conspiracy websites when, like I have, one just accepts that our government already possesses such vehicles. I just basically take it for granted by now that the NSA and the military-industrial complex has, somewhere, maybe deep in the ground, or out in space, or in Antarctica, or on the frickin' moon, technology that's at least 10, if not 50 years ahead of what has made its way into the consumer marketplace.

But as you've pointed out, science took a wrong turn on its way to Albequerque and removed quaternions where they shouldn't have been removed and now flawed theories have so much momentum that nobody thinks outside the box because that would be admitting they've been wrong and ... deep breath ... anyway it's all shot to hell now.

But somewhere, even if just my imagination, there are scientists - sworn to silence - who are reverse-engineering things that fly according to physical laws totally unrecognizable to mainstream science... hyperdimensional laws...

And they wouldn't be building anything that didn't exist already in ancient India (i.e. vimana).

Oh, I notice somebody already beat me to mentioning Gen. Corso... excellent...

Anyway - I'm so rambly - there are so many aspects to these kinds of things, that it makes me want to weave all the threads together into something coherent. Like take some of the stuff from Rigorous Intuition, some from Rense and some from TEM and build, not a Grand Unified Theory, but a Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory.

But yeah, rockets seem so primitive, like cars. Are we really still burning old dinosaurs for energy? Are you kidding me? This is 2005, for cryin' out loud. We're supposed to be driving hovercrafts by now.

End communication

27/7/05 2:20 PM  
Anonymous said...

If the plan is for the masons to get off the planet before the coming polar shift cataclysm, maybe the secret government is trying to avoid panic and revolution while at the same time lull eveyone asleep so that they can ultimately repopulate the planet after the extincion event occurs. So, what difference does it make? They will succeed and we will die, so what? We have no power; we don't have the truth. I highly doubt that some aliens are coming to save the day.

27/7/05 2:36 PM  
TempleMaster333 said...

Richard,
Now get this....
In the Old Testament there presently 39 books. If (as in ancient times) you combine 1st & 2nd Samuel, 1st & 2nd Kings and 1st & 2nd Chronicles, you are now left with 36 books. Now here is the kicker... if you add all of the integers between 1 and 36, inclusive, you get....... 666.

27/7/05 3:02 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Richard,

This speaks exactly to my earlier posts. Why don't WE go, NOW?
I'm not being flippant here. The technology to return to the moon, go to mars, etc. is HERE, NOW. The skills needed are HERE, NOW, in the scientists and engineers that make up the American Public.
Why don't we organize something oursevles, and GO? I, for one, am interested.

27/7/05 3:26 PM  
Stonesfan said...

Two things. First, look how detailed the coverage and data is we get from the shuttle mission compared to Deep (though mysteriously silent)Impact.

Secondly, why is it that a maneuverable craft such as the space shuttle needs to enter the atmosphere upon returning at rates of speed which burn from friction? Why can't a space shuttle be slowed down to allow a more gentle reentry into the Earth's atmosphere? Anyone know?

27/7/05 3:33 PM  
Juergen said...

Hello again Richard,

Modern Bloggggggs got bloggged up.

Resending the original message.

Mr. Richard Hoagland,

I am very awed you read and answered my question about the netting. (Not knowing anything about dynamics and resistance etc. I just had an idea).
So I perused the plethora museum of science (Mr. Richard Hoagland, not your age, but your knowledge).

I regret that the USSR did not land on the moon. We (the U.S.A.) would have had more landings, which in turn would have revealed scientific research and discoveries of the anomalies on the moon.

Waiting 10 to 15 years to venture to the moon and 30 plus years to Mars? What are we Werner Von Braun? (Living in the 20 century - 1960 era),

I am elated that the Chinese are forging into space and I pray they have a faster rate of going to the moon and to your planet Mr. Hoagland… Mars! Because, if they (the Chinese) discover what Mars has to offer, the U.S.A. would be left in the Martian dust (by discovering all the ancient libraries, machines and advance technology) this knowledge the U.S.A. could have first instead of the Chinese!

If the Chinese are gearing up for space, is it possible there would be a Space race? As long as the U.S.A. is the only player in the world, there is NO competition. We need someone to kick are behind to get us (U.S.A.) going! And as you and I know, THE U.S.A. ..CAN …AND WE WILL DO IT once were challenged!!!

And, on another subject of meteorites that make 90-degree turns and the planet Venus that goes 3000 mph…(That is what our government tells us).

The United States has gone through WWI, we survived! We survived WWII! Vietnam! And we survived 9/11! Knowing that, don’t you think we the people of the United States can survive UFO information??????? Religion controls us and the government controls us. Knowledge is to be shared not hoarded!!! We, the people of United States can survive the unknown …that we are visited by aliens and possible have been engineer by aliens. Jesus spoke wisdom, so have others. It is the message what Jesus and others gave us ….. not to control us.

Richard, maintain the excellent work, don’t give up. Art and George, I also acknowledge you for your information.

Sincerely yours.

Juergen

27/7/05 3:37 PM  
aredo said...

You got to look at this one :

---------

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/27/ms_area_51/

Microsoft cloaks Area 51
By Lester Haines
Published Wednesday 27th July 2005 13:59 GMT

---------


What I bet is that the Google map is a fake and Microsoft people knew that they couldn't show the truth there BUT they forgot to fill the area with some fake stuff.. or maybe someone made his systems forget it....

27/7/05 3:40 PM  
Anonymous said...

Bravo Captain Hoagy,

I am 51 years old, and I remember watching Walter Cronkite cry on live-televison when Armstrong stepped onto the surface of the Moon.
I recommend that all of you read a book titled, "Lost in Space: The Fall of Nasa and the Dream of a New Space Age" by Greg Klerkx.

I don't buy the arguement that the "free market" is the best way to go with space colonization. The "free market" consists today of slave labor in third world countries and spolied afluent consumers in the Western World. It is obscene, and turns my stomach.

The bottom line for me, cocerning NASA, is that the USA cut it's own throat by abandoning the Manned Colonization, and Manned exploration, of the Solar Sytem, and Beyond, in the 1960s/70s.

I was disgusted with Nasa's lack of vision as far back as the early 1970's, and as a consequence was called a grouch, a gloomykins, a pessimist, unAmerican, etc.
It turns out that I was correct. The worst did happen, and keeps happening.

I remember watching the uncut version of "2001: A Space Oydessy" in the 1960s, and dreaming of traveling to the planets in my later years. Ha!

The fact is that the USA has been going downhill in every area, not just space exploration. Our whole economy since the 1970s has been propped up with funny money, despite all the lies about a booming economy, and finally the funny money bubble is about to pop.

I mention that because there is not, and will not be, enough monetary resources to build all the infrastructural instrumentalities that will be required to send manned missions, on a permanent basis, to the moons, and planets.

Bush, and The Griffin, know that. They are liars. They dare not tell the public that it's too late, that we don't have the resources, that we are nation on the brink of financial, and social, disaster.
No, instead the two buffoons tell the public that all is well, and promise them a mission to Mars in 15 years. "Let them eat Mars"

We fumbled, and then dropped the football, as a nation.
We won't have another chance. We have wasted far to much precious time being greedy, self-indulgent, and grasshoppers instead of ants, as Aesop would say.
We killed Apollo, both figuratively, and metaphorically.

The Boomer Generation is a flop, and it will die with the lights out, and with it's toys broken, and unrepairable. Even the Boomer's artistic achievements are mediocre, and many are beyond vile.
A miserable generation of phonies who traded plastic flowers for Wall Street Stocks.

Forget it Hoagland.
Isn't 50 years of "nothing" enough to convince you that it's finished. But then again, isn't it best to die fighting. So keep charging at the windmills. What the heck.
Hoagland's theme song, for me, is, "Beethoven's 5th Symphony"

In place of conspiracy theories I think the biggest monster we face is human imcompetence at all levels, within all races , and both genders. Stupidity, ignorance, me-ism, them-ism, blame-ism, laziness, greed.
The amount of care, and compassion, is like nanodust in a dung heap.

We have self-qaurantined ourselves to this one planet, and we will kill ourselves off in a mad scramble for oil, fresh water, and food.
Human nature is the problem. Why are we so self-destructive, why?

Rod Serling said we would commit self-genocide as a species. Watch the 1960s Twilight Zone episodes. Nothing, and I mean nothing, in human nature, has changed since then.

Even if we develop inexpensive anti-gravity devices and begin the commercialization of space what will be the result;
sweatshops in space, boundaries wars, colonies of exploited citizens, corporations creating fascist empres free of governemnt control and regulations, space corporations creating artifical humans for God knows what purposes.

I don't trust large corporations, and commercializing space will only drag our frontiers, hatreds, and exploitations, off Earth into space.

Human nature, and I mean both genders, has to mature, bigtime, and quickly. But how?

I really can't see any hope.

27/7/05 3:49 PM  
Sjeik I din't Do Ith said...

The whole shuttle show is just that.
One big show. What started with a 'humans on the moon' Hollywood production, has been transformed into the 'shuttle soap', Hollywood reality productions.
It's not about losing tiles, its about showing the tiles breaking off. Why put a camera in the front seat to film it, instead of avoiding such things to happen? They simply don't care enough.
Next thing they claim the terrorists have done it. War on terror expands into space. Hello space warfare.
Oh no, thats doesn't sound logical.
By that time, the new found enemy will probably be ET.

Space exploration? Its probably space exploitation. And giving the tv addicted people their daily dose of reality crap.

27/7/05 4:27 PM  
IonTruO2 said...

Anonymous,
With all growth there is a stretch. As one moves farther away from "where" they were, there is a tension or a tensioning much like an elastic band becoming -taught. Much like yoga or sports stretches. So it gets very uncomfortable and stessed, just before a release or stretch break through movement beyond the previous so called "limit". Classic of duality, is that it feels worse or worsening when in fact it is actually getting better! It's a lot like "growing pains". These are great days and Thomas is not so far off with his announcements. Richard cleverly yet responsibly keeps hinting at what is soon to reveal. I feel no great devious conspiracy, just the removal of a veil, and blam!
Clarity, and across all subjects as hearts shout for truth with focused intent. Thats no fluff. I didn't see hope either, yet I now feel it.

27/7/05 4:44 PM  
Anonymous said...

They just grounded the shuttle fleet.

FarFromTheTree

27/7/05 4:48 PM  
Jayson said...

Bummer.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8720825/

Just get home safely Discovery.

27/7/05 4:59 PM  
Anonymous said...

< The whole shuttle show is just that >

You know something, throughout all the coverage these last couple weeks regarding the re-launching of the shuttle again... I don't recall being informed as to what the missions are during these 13 days in orbit. I admit I don't follow all the news and such. But from what I have watched, I still have no idea on what missions, experiements, or whatever they are doing during this mission. I'm sure it was mentioned, but it's not a prominent aspect of the coverage. Whereas prior I usually have a basic idea on the reason for the launches.

27/7/05 5:12 PM  
thomas said...

We are 'prohibited' from travelling 'beyond' near-Earth orbit with 'manned' missions....Thanks to the failed black-ops,military mission, Apollo 13.....The last manned mission to go beyond near-Earth orbit was Apollo 17 in Dec,1972...32 years ago & counting! hmmm.........

Bush's Jan 2004 clarion call to go to 'the Moon, Mars & beyond' was a sham...He knows we are prohibited...It was actually a declaration to develope more 'exotic',advanced weaponry...

30 years ago NASA 'abruptly'cancelled the last 4 Apollo missions (18 thru 21) due to 'financial problems'. Yet, it has spent dozens of trillions $$$ since then....hmmm......

We are prohibited....

The global,covert,cosmic drama between the Light & the dark is near the 'Omega Point'...A New Reality,a New Paradigm & a 'New You' is on the horizon....

Major Global Revelations soon...........

27/7/05 5:13 PM  
Captain Kirk said...

The tiles..again?? Can you imagine the consequences for a company if, year after year after year they made the same defective product?? I mean (okay, so it IS rocket science) don't you learn a little more after each flight? They're just tiles! Yes, I know they are exposed to tremendous levels of heat and cold and vibration, etc., but you would think NASA would now have umpteen computer models reflecting the various stresses the shuttle body encounters during liftoff and landing. Twenty four years later and they don't have a decent adhesive?? Maybe they should just go back to one big heat shield like on the old Apollo command modules.

27/7/05 5:30 PM  
Randy said...

NASA must stop this nonsense of low earth orbit, and take us out into deep space.It must be turned into a race, a race with themselves, a race for humanity.The time of lies and deception is over, it is time to do what we have dream of doing, going out of the confines of this world of low earth orbit, and going where no man has gone before.Not to seek out new life, but to find ourselves, what man has left behind and forgotten. We have the means, we have the knowledge,so what are you waiting for NASA? The time for lies and games are over.

27/7/05 5:36 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Rob in DC said... just checking in. Talking of old technology has anyone noticed the new Boeing advert?

It's of a computer generated CGI space craft, an advanced large looking stealthy ship.

Although obviously not real footage, are we already being conditioned to new technology, that Boeing has been at work on?

I'm watching Fox news and have seen it maybe a few times over the past week

27/7/05 5:51 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

...oh and of course, NASA have just grounded the entire fleet, stating that there are no problems with the current mission...

...it's just that this 'old' space technology, that was cranked up on bricks in Florida, is held together by duct tape...

...and a piece fell off...

...God help those 7 persons!

NASA you are responsible for their safety.

Yes they take risks, but if it emerges that you have had better technology for years and many people have lost their lives to hide the truth, then it was the highest price paid.

Some one will answer for it...

Just thinking out loud

Again interesting times...

'Brian'

27/7/05 5:55 PM  
Anonymous said...

"Groundhog Day" indeed. Let's see, what's the same as on the last mission: insulation breaks off plus heat shield tile damage. What's different: broken off insulation does not impact shuttle. Sounds like "another roll of the dice" to me. Someone said "luck is not a strategy for success."

The whole point of the Groundhog Day movie, of course, was that unless you change what you do on a pretty profound basis, the same things will keep happening "to" you.

27/7/05 6:20 PM  
Anonymous said...

Can't NASA just put some kind of netting mesh over the entire fuel tank to prevent pieces from falling off? This is totally rediculous.

27/7/05 6:37 PM  
thomas said...

Prohibited?...........

"To boldly go where 'someone' has gone before"..............

hmmm.......

27/7/05 6:45 PM  
Jayson said...

Something curious just occurred to me.

If NASA can't even "clear up" Tempel 1 data, what hope do they have to analyze the infamous foam photo?

Just one of my many musings...:)

27/7/05 7:17 PM  
Bradf_nc said...

Instead of wondering why someone doesnt invent a protective heat coating that can be sprayed on the shuttle.... you should start wondering why NASA doesn't use "Starlite".It has been around for years and it was invented in the inventors back yard....http://www.alternativescience.com/flame-proof.htm......Think about that.Say that to yourself outloud a few times.He mixed this goop up in his back yard by accident.
Also, don't think that super mack daddy propulsion systems don't exist.Of course they do.LOTS of technology exists that you and I have not even thought about in our wildest dreams.The problem is not, not having the technology.The problem is that we humans are not far enough evolved beyond monkeys swinging in trees.Just look around at how we are destroying ourselves slowly but surely, with the simple technology is available to anyone .Now imagine how much faster we would kill oursleves off with even more advanced technology.Some of us are under the impression that we are the current master race of this planet and that we are the masters of our own destiny.But if that were the case.....then the different races would not be butting heads like a bunch of fleas fighting over who owns the dog that they are on.
In stating my opinion,my intent is not to offend anyone or make anyone angry.I am simply pointing out how primitve the human race is.If the governments of the world suddenly told us that we are not alone in the universe.The first thing that some of us would want to do is attack our new found neighbors.
Best Regards,Brad

27/7/05 7:21 PM  
philthewizard said...

It doesn't surprise me that we haven't been back to the moon. I've heard several theories on this, but I believe that structures or ruins of structures of artificial origin as Dr. Hoagland suggests are probably there, and no way in hell is NASA going to permit us to see these things.
I have my own ideas on the origins of such wonders, but that is mainly irrelevant to the discussion. It's just that video capability IS so advanced that if we returned there in person, fuzzy distant pictures would not be accepted by the public. The powers that be are not prepared to open this Pandora's box at this time. So we're doomed to low earth orbit until something breaks.

27/7/05 7:44 PM  
docstyle said...

Wouldn't it be funny-sad if painting the external tank was the way to go all along?

27/7/05 7:52 PM  
Anonymous said...

< It doesn't surprise me that we haven't been back to the moon. >

Unless we have been back to the moon and THEY haven't told us. Perhaps black projects to the moon have been going on for a long while.

27/7/05 8:20 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

J-Man,

>This is my first time on here. I hear alot of this place on Coast to Coast AM and had to check it out. I'm glad I did!<

We're glad you did too .... :)

27/7/05 8:21 PM  
Dan said...

I remember a couple of decades ago when I read a magazine article about other nations' "shuttles." The best one looked to be a two-part ship similar to Burt Ratan's Spaceship One. NASA should build one of these.

No. Wait! Hopefully, Rattan or some other free market entrepeneur will use this design to circle the Earth in orbit.

A "space station" could be built low budget and used as a "service station/tourist attraction" and be built a la Werner von Braun...as a wheel...a very small one.

A "space tug" could be built similarly and docked at the station to go from LEO to LLO.

A similar "station" could be transported to LLO.

Landers could then go from there to the surface.

It does NOT take a "rocket scientist" to figure this out.

Go figure.

---Dan

27/7/05 8:22 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Jasgrave333,

>This is strange *only* because H.G.Wells was a 33rd degree Freemason.<

What's your sopurce on this ...? :)

27/7/05 8:37 PM  
Anonymous said...

Like it or not the ONLY technology currently available to "slip the surly bonds of Earth" is high powered rockets. Until someone figures out a better way to get craft into orbit we are stuck on this rock. The Mythbusters couldn't even make the human slingshot work 100% tonight. ;)

Ten Alp

27/7/05 8:49 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

TempleMaster333,

">When I look at my iron or teflon skillet on top of the stove, I don't see it made up of sectional tiles. Why risk the chance of even one tile falling off the shuttle. Can't they develop a 'spray on' coating, similar to the protective composition of the tiles, and thus provide a uniform seam-free heat barrier, even if it would still require repairs after re-entry?<"

Actually, I DIDN'T say this. Another reader did. I was simply reposting HIS comment ... before I added my own thoughts. The key in recogizing this in future is in the "><" .... :)

>Why rely completely on coatings ? Rutan designed SPACESHIP 1 with a "feathering" technique involving a reconfiguration of the wings for a slow descent that avoids much of the high temperature of rentry and the need for tightly controlled descent angles and requires a minimal heat shield.<

Unfortunately, as Burt is the FIRST to admit, his innovative "feathering technique" will ONLY work at relatively low SUB-ORBITAL velocities. Getting into obit is VERY energy-intensive. Shedding all that energy when you come back is the KEY reason why spaceflight, based on current, rocket-based technology, is SO expensive ... and so inefficient. And so dangerous.

Simply put: we desperately need something "else." And, that "something else" exists (as I shall demonstrate in future "Captain's Blogs"). We truly need the political WILL to employ these alternative technologies!

Stay tuned.

27/7/05 8:57 PM  
Anonymous said...

Thomas,

Are you smoking crack?

What makes you think we are on the verge of 1st contact?

How do you think that would go over?

27/7/05 9:07 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

TempleMaster333,

>In the Old Testament there presently 39 books. If (as in ancient times) you combine 1st & 2nd Samuel, 1st & 2nd Kings and 1st & 2nd Chronicles, you are now left with 36 books. Now here is the kicker... if you add all of the integers between 1 and 36, inclusive, you get....... 666.<

I'm pretty impressed that, with NOTHING done, the "canon" of the existing 39 books is EXTREMELY, hyperdimensionally significant .... :)

27/7/05 9:17 PM  
Anonymous said...

Isn't it curious how we're still using brute force methods of "space exploration"? Seems to me military technology, that to which the general public is privy, has been refined through many unfortunate recursions. I would say it's also notable that the more prosaic forms of travel haven't changed much, either. We still rely almost completely on fossil fuels to produce and run those vehicles, after how many years? How efficient is the internal combustion engine again? Something like 10-30%??

It must be that there's no money to be made advancing technology in certain arenas. It's amusing to guess the fields in which advances are making someone some money. Everything happens for a reason.

27/7/05 9:23 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Anonymous,

>"Groundhog Day" indeed. Let's see, what's the same as on the last mission: insulation breaks off plus heat shield tile damage. What's different: broken off insulation does not impact shuttle. Sounds like "another roll of the dice" to me. Someone said "luck is not a strategy for success."

>The whole point of the Groundhog Day movie, of course, was that unless you change what you do on a pretty profound basis, the same things will keep happening "to" you.<

So, as I asked ... what are the odds that Eileen Collins -- Commander of STS-114 -- picked THAT movie just by "accident" ...? :)

27/7/05 9:37 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Docstyle,

>Wouldn't it be funny-sad if painting the external tank was the way to go all along?<

You know, after I wrote that ... I began thinking about it all afternoon .... The right "elastomar/paint" COULD be the solution to the "foam problem." So what if it costs "a few thousand pounds of payload?"

The real cost, if this isn't fixed 9in the short term) is the entire Shuttle Program ... if not the entire Space Program itself.

Or ... is that what someone WANTS ...?

27/7/05 9:43 PM  
WhoNeedsANick said...

picking up on what thomas said, all i wanna know is this, and pls can i have an answer from everybody?

it seems to me that if there are aliens prohibiting "us" from going beyond the earth and "our goverments" are rebelling against this....who is the good guy, and who is the bad?

it seems we are being "programmed" to believe the aliens are the bad guys (war of the worlds being the last example)....so there is a hint maybe?

27/7/05 9:54 PM  
DukeHeart said...

NASA's space technology has remained stagnant, its a bit like the promise of Personal JetPacks and Virtual Reality. No real progress for 20+ years.

The private community is fed up with this. Coincidently on the news.com.au website they posted an article on Virgin's new private commercial spaceflight company.

Here is the article
--------------------------
Virgin to build commercial spaceships
From correspondents in Chicago
July 28, 2005
From: Agence France-Presse
BRITISH tycoon Sir Richard Branson has formed an aerospace company to build a fleet of commercial spaceships.

The Spaceship Co will be jointly owned by Sir Richard Virgin Group and Burt Rutan, whose SpaceShipOne won the $US10 million ($13.25 million) "X Prize" for sending a privately designed craft into space twice in two weeks.
The first flights are scheduled for 2008 and will cost $US200,000. Virgin said it hoped to bring the cost down as the hardware developed.

"Like many millions of people growing up in the 60s who witnessed the wonder of man walking on the moon – I dreamt that one day I too would make that 'one small step'," Sir Richard said.

"Unfortunately though, over the last three decades, many people gave up hope. Luckily people like Burt Rutan never did. His vision has allowed people, like me, to dream again."

Under the deal, Virgin Galactic has placed orders for five of Rutan's SpaceShipTwo and two of his White Knight Two launch systems with options on further systems. It has also secured the exclusive use of the systems for the initial 18 months of commercial passenger operations.

"Richard and I share a vision that commercially-viable and safe space tourism will provide the foundation for the human colonisation of space," Mr Rutan said in the statement.

"This will truly herald an era of personal spaceflight first described by the visionary science fiction writers of the 1940s and 1950s."

27/7/05 10:12 PM  
Anonymous said...

>>>Isn't it curious how we're still using brute force methods of "space exploration"? Seems to me military technology, that to which the general public is privy, has been refined through many unfortunate recursions. I would say it's also notable that the more prosaic forms of travel haven't changed much, either. We still rely almost completely on fossil fuels to produce and run those vehicles, after how many years? How efficient is the internal combustion engine again? Something like 10-30%??<<<<


I ask you what are the alternate means? Gravity is an illusion created by large objects bending space, like putting a bowling ball in the middle of your mattress, it isn't a particle that can have an anti-particle. As great as it sounds anti-gravity machines are fiction. The only thing that could have a shot in the real world is something that is electromagnetic in nature.

The nice thing though is once your finally off the Earth your at least halfway to anywhere.

Ten Alp

27/7/05 10:17 PM  
Brian C said...

Stonesfan said...
"Why can't a space shuttle be slowed down to allow a more gentle reentry into the Earth's atmosphere?"

I suspect the answer to this is just lack of fuel. Friction is a free brake.


Dan said...
"I remember a couple of decades ago when I read a magazine article about other nations' "shuttles." The best one looked to be a two-part ship similar to Burt Ratan's Spaceship One. NASA should build one of these.
No. Wait! Hopefully, Rattan or some other free market entrepeneur will use this design to circle the Earth in orbit.
A "space station" could be built low budget..."


If we really want economical access to space, we need to build a space elevator. Carbon nanotubes are already strong enough, although I believe there are still problems of bonding the fibres together.

...either that, or free energy + antigrav, which I wouldn't kick out of bed for eating crackers either. ;)

27/7/05 10:28 PM  
MindTrigger said...

This is Off Topic Richard, but I'd like to congratulate you on the Blog. I've been following your work since Monuments of Mars was shown to me shortly after it's release. I drifted away from the website because the updates were slow to come (with good reason I'm sure). It's good to see you here on a more regular basis. Blogs make it a lot easier. I have a couple for private use myself.

27/7/05 11:13 PM  
Ken B. said...

Hello Richard, love your work. When is NASA going to take seriously the talk of electrogravitic propulsion and other "alternative sciences?" From this, you can learn to leave Earth orbit as well as to effect a "force-field" for the shuttle's protection. If "backyard" scientists are doing it on the cheap, then why isn't NASA researching it with it's multi-billion dollar budget?

Oh, and if you didn't know already, NASA just shut down the shuttle program "until further notice." Here's a link to the story: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050727%2F2103887340.htm&photoid=20050728WAS12D&ewp=ewp_news_0705discovery_damage&floc=NW_1-T

It's sorry times for our so-called space program.

27/7/05 11:17 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

hic... just come back from the bar, it's Karaoke night here in St Kitt's.

The islands hot and people are everywhere, it's fantastic...

Richard, Richard C. Hoagland said...
Jasgrave333,

>This is strange *only* because H.G.Wells was a 33rd degree Freemason.<

What's your sopurce on this ...? :)

27/7/05 8:37 PM

I always use google, doesnt the bible say that God says, "Search for me and I shall be found".

I love search engines, so revealing of many truths, I love google, it's getting to be an interesting tool...

Any way here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=33+degree+freemason+bush

have a peek ;)

"I'm not the doom bringer, I'm the doom bringers son, I'm just here prophesying doom, till the doom bringer comes" 5 ;)

'Brian'

27/7/05 11:22 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

errm Richard, I meant to google H.G.Wells...

I was looking through a small list of 33 degree members and was surprised to learn that the *only* two presidents that weren't 33 degree 'Freemasons' were President Abraham Lincoln and President Kenedy.

I seem to remeber Abraham lincolns face on the 5 Dollar bill. Hmmm... http://jasgrave333.blogspot.com anyone?

Moving onto the be-laboured point...

I knew that Bush was a member I was looking through the list and saw H. G. Wells name.

http://www.whale.to/b/33.html

but as I used to say when I lived in England 'rule of thumb'...

Google something, if the hits show positive 100% in the first ten for your subject, your on the right track in your research ;)

so here is the url for a google search for H. G. Wells, as a 33 degree Freemason

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=33+degree+freemason+wells

'Brian'

27/7/05 11:36 PM  
robert said...

Especially now that the fleet is grounded once more with Discovery still in orbit; it is VITAL that ALL space enthusiasts write, fax, call, and email their political represenatives and their local and maninstream media. In your own words you need to point out that Area 51 HAS superior technological aerodynamic machines than ANY other place on the planet. Don't THEY have something better and safer than the shuttle for getting into orbit? Why doesn't the media and political and defense leadership honestly address this question? Should Astronauts continued to be sacrificed for some false sense of national security when better access to space exists at Area 51 and the Utah Facilities and other bases around the globe in the deepblack projects of DARPA? America has no 'space fleet' right now capable of flying by mainstream standards and we are once more dependant on the Russians for rides to space. Soon we'll have to include the Chinese as well.

From the DisclsoureProject.org we KNOW from Astronauts, Military, Governmental FAA, FBI, DMA, CIA, DARPA, Pentagon personnel from AirForce, Marines, Navy, Army, CoastGuard and even civilian persons of note have made sworn testimony they would like to get before congress that America already HAS and is USING anti-gravity propulsion technology to go from ground to orbit and beyond easily, safely and routinely. One of the main reasons for secrecy is not only the technology of how it is done, but especially the fact that humanity is not alone in the Solar System, much less the Universe itself.

This denial and refusal to LOOK with a SERIOUS intent on declassifying SOME of the Area 51 areospace capabilities will continue to cost Astronaut lives, billions in wasted tax dollars, and a lost of the American vision and dream. We will not shape the political and economics of the coming Solar System dynamics.

You can help change this by writing, calling, faxing, emailing the prattling politicians, the babbling beaurocrats, the mindless media minions both local and national. The time for Area 51 to come out of the closet is NOW !

http://www.enterprisemission.com/help.htm

It is time to stop throwing dice with Astronaut lives in a game that is rigged against them to begin with. This is like not providing proper armour to our troops in the first year's of this Iraq war. We are not providing the BEST aerospace capabilities to our space effort. It really IS that simple. I thank creation people like Richard are holding NASA's feet to the fire. We need to also act in concert and make our voices heard.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Don't make promises and policies you don't intend to keep and to keep the policies and promises you do make.

ACTIONS speak louder than words.
ACTIONS are PROOF of intent.
ACTIONS are the final judgement of character.

It REALLY is that simple.

Bob... :D
http://www.commonsensecentral.com

27/7/05 11:48 PM  
Anonymous said...

We're not going to improve our consciousness like someone posted.
Instead, we're going to find out we are living in the end times...

28/7/05 12:36 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Rise of consciousness, end times ...
And what if we just work together and build a better world? Catastrophism is not the answer. It is just another way to spread fear around and ... keep the sheeps quiet.

28/7/05 1:54 AM  
Gerald T said...

Nice blog Richard, you don’t post every day, but when you do its in depth.
And you haven’t yet posted a photo of a pinup girl in a bikini holding a model rocket, classy!

But the best thing about your blog is the post it comments, lots of em, and a wide variety of view points.

Now for a shameless self promotion of my Mars Spirit Rover artifact blog;

http://marsrelaystation.blogspot.com/

And no, on my blog you won’t also see any ‘babes of the week’, holding an alien artifact.

28/7/05 2:30 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Jasgrave333,

>Google something, if the hits show positive 100% in the first ten for your subject, your on the right track in your research ;)

>So here is the url for a google search for H. G. Wells, as a 33 degree Freemason<

You have to be VERY careful using Google (or any other search engine). The sites you find may not be careful in THEIR research, so just because Google comes up with some "hits" doesn't make it true!!

To whit: this is an official Masonic site--

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/wells.html

Which says specifically that Wells was NOT a Freemason. If you (or anyone else) has an authenticated Lodge Record, proving that he WAS, I'd like to see it.

But, as with all good research, this stuff's NOT easy to separate "fact" from "fiction."

28/7/05 2:57 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Gerald T,

>But the best thing about your blog is the post it comments, lots of em, and a wide variety of view points.<

It's called "democracy" .... :)

28/7/05 3:12 AM  
Paul said...

Do a search on TAW-50, anti-gravity is definately the way forward.
These advanced craft exist, whether some are "ours" is another matter, check out the STS-48? space footage of the "ice particles affected by the RCS thrusters", yeah right, whatever you say!
Of course if NASA overnight started using these things a whole supermarket of worm cans would be opened.

28/7/05 5:57 AM  
Theo's Fish Emporium said...

Ah, finally a Hoagie article I can understand!

Nice job with Discovery, God Bless America.

Anyways, so long and thanks for all the fish!

28/7/05 6:00 AM  
thomas said...

whoneedsanick

Read my previous posts starting from Richard's first blog on 'War of the Worlds'...I have listed the links that will explain the 'big picture' to you...


suggested reading:

'Your First Contact' by Sheldan Nidle
'Behold a Pale Horse' by William Cooper
'The Monuments of Mars' by Richard Hoagland....all are available thru the websites of these 3 authors or B&N Booksellers......

the dots are there to connect if the research is applied...Richard has been proving this for decades...Bless him..

Major global announcements & a 'New Reality' (First Contact) soon....

28/7/05 6:08 AM  
Anonymous said...

Talkt about GROUND HOGS DAY
Get this, coincidence not.


Columbia STS-107
Launch: 1/16/03
10:39am EST

Discovery STS-114
Launch: 7/26/05
10:39am EDT

28/7/05 6:16 AM  
Michael said...

It's interesting that NASA is more eager to publish photos of their crumbling Space Shuttle than publishing the findings of a recent success story (the Tempel 1 mission).

Since I don't believe they suddenly got a taste for self flagellation, this really looks like someone is fabricating a justification for stopping all (civil?) space missions.

28/7/05 6:27 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Yes, we are grounded.
Maybe waiting for those big, yellow starships, and their ugly, nasty Vogon guys.
And, eventually, that's what Planet Earth is now ...
... mostly harmless.
:D

28/7/05 6:50 AM  
Paul said...

>I ask you what are the alternate means? Gravity is an illusion created by large objects bending space, like putting a bowling ball in the middle of your mattress, it isn't a particle that can have an anti-particle. As great as it sounds anti-gravity machines are fiction.<
Gravity is the result of aether flow not bent space and hence can be modified by adjusting the aether flow. Anti-gravity is demonstrable quite easily above a spinning superconductor. The Searl effect produces anti-gravity and a working craft was made using this. Also sound waves can also be used to generate anti-gravity effects.

28/7/05 6:58 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Paul,
I get lost. What is anti-gravity and what is defying inertia? I don't think it is the same thing. I don't really care about hoovering over the ground at one or two meters, and then needing the same amount of fuel to accelerate my full mass. Can somebody tell me what is making the real difference here?

28/7/05 7:17 AM  
Massimo IT said...

'and then needing the same amount of fuel to accelerate my full mass.'

I mean, the same amount of fuel I need today with chemical rockets (or maybe just something less, by discarding the planet's gravity pull)

28/7/05 7:32 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Richard, thanks I stand corrected. I completely admit, the Freemasonary is a complete mystery

"You have to be VERY careful using Google (or any other search engine). The sites you find may not be careful in THEIR research, so just because Google comes up with some "hits" doesn't make it true!!

To whit: this is an official Masonic site--

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/wells.html

Which says specifically that Wells was NOT a Freemason. If you (or anyone else) has an authenticated Lodge Record, proving that he WAS, I'd like to see it.

But, as with all good research, this stuff's NOT easy to separate "fact" from "fiction."

28/7/05 2:57 AM
"

Very true, fact and fiction, but this is fact...

President Kenedy and President Lincoln (16th) were not 33 degree FreeMasons...

and the two to be assasinated...

The truth sometimes is stranger than fiction.

If any new information comes up on the H.G.Wells thing I will continue re-searching it...

To me even if it was not true, there is a lot of smoke coming off the "evidence".

It seemed to 'Bizarer' coincidence to let go...


Still I will apologise for any wrong comment I make and put my hand up and say I dont know.

Keep up this excelent site

28/7/05 7:34 AM  
firestarter said...

Richard Hoagland, I listen to you on Coast2Coast and read you here, quite a bit as of late.
You'ev been saying "stay tuned" all along in your recent posts..wi wonder if you do that generally all the time, or is it something you want your audience to actually keep their heads up for something you have to say soon. I heard you on C2C saying that you have somethign *BIG* to report very soon..some information that has been leaked to you...is that what you are reinferring by the "stay tuned" in your comments? And in how long will this be?

28/7/05 7:39 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

"Paul said...
>I ask you what are the alternate means? Gravity is an illusion created by large objects bending space, like putting a bowling ball in the middle of your mattress, it isn't a particle that can have an anti-particle. As great as it sounds anti-gravity machines are fiction.<
Gravity is the result of aether flow not bent space and hence can be modified by adjusting the aether flow. Anti-gravity is demonstrable quite easily above a spinning superconductor. The Searl effect produces anti-gravity and a working craft was made using this. Also sound waves can also be used to generate anti-gravity effects.

28/7/05 6:58 AM
"

Paul, is there any media (read official) or documented evidence of this craft or crafts you can post to this site?

Interested to read more about that...

28/7/05 7:39 AM  
Brude said...

As far as future, better ways to get people and payloads to space, the best possibility seems to be the space elevator concept. Thought to be an impossible and dangerous fantasy even just a decade or so ago, many engineers now think it is not only possible, but could be achieved within a decade to fifteen years if an Apollo-sized program were put forward to develop the remaining technologies and pay for its construction.

This Wikipedia article is a great place to start on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

(Richard, is this what you were talking about was forthcoming?)

28/7/05 8:03 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Brude

Yet, we need to bring the whole stuff in GEO (about 36,000 Km high orbit) and deploy down the nanotube cables. We need to bring up there the power generators, etc.
Only Saturn 5 could bring men and hardware there to make the job done ... and it could in the sixties. Where are we now today, really? I still bet we are better than we could imagine. Maybe I am too positive. But I like this line of thinking, a lot.

28/7/05 8:33 AM  
PIF said...

I just thought it might be interesting to note that newsmax.com has posted a story aboutthe switch fron freon-based foam to the current envio (sic) friendly one.

"Before the environmentally friendly new insulation was used, about 40 of the spacecraft's 26,000 ceramic tiles would sustain damage in missions. However, Katnik reported that NASA engineers found 308 "hits" to Columbia after a 1997 flight."

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/7/28/93055.shtml

28/7/05 8:55 AM  
TempleMaster333 said...

Richard,
Perhaps an electromagnetic drive could be based on the HOMO-POLAR generator you discussed sometime back in one of your hyperdimensional write-ups. After reading that, I became very curious if I could build a generator that would produce the same voltage as calculated from Faraday's induction law, even if the magnet and the conductor were rotating at the same angular speed with no relative motion between them.I constructed a simple test device using a small but extremely powerful rare earth ring magnet inserted into a copper pipe endcap. I placed this assembly on an axle and rotated it at high speed on a drill press. I then measured the d.c. voltage between the center axis and the endcap edge.It was only a few millivolts, but it was very close to what I calculated using Faraday's induction law. I then removed the magnet and spun the assembly again. There was no output this time. This was enough to convince me that the effect is probably real. Great effort would be required to increase the voltage output to a usable level,generate tremendous rotational speed and get the weight way down so that "zero point" is greatly exceeded for perpetual power generation on the scale necessary to drive a spacecraft. You have probably seen the "NAZI UFO" websites which claim that the VRIL Scociety in pre-WW2 Germany obtained knowledge of some kind of electromagnetic propulsion system from an alien race . This was supposedly the basis for later SS-run flying disc projects. There are photos of a VRIL type disc(fake?) with what looks like a 20mm cannon slung from the belly. These craft were said to use stellar navigation, as no compass could survive in the powerful magnetic fields generated by the drive. (Was this HOMO-POLAR drive?) One of these discs supposedly docked with the Q-ship ATLANTIS in the middle of the South Atlantic. Cute story. I guess all of the VRIL squadrons would be based beneath Lake Vostok in Antarctica at this point.

28/7/05 8:57 AM  
Koby said...

All this reminds me of sitting in departmental meetings where I used to work.
TONS of great ideas... but unfortunately only the ones that don't scare the stockholders make it to fruition.

It's all about the $$$ people. Those without it want a change and those with it will not let go.

I've said it before, even Richard (and other honest researhers) are profiting from the current trends.

The Lion King...

28/7/05 9:23 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

some questions regarding amazing technologies I've only read about in hushed news forums they are as follows:

Static Electricity perpetual generator - Makes electricity from the static in the air, supposedly scientifically proven and there is a working model.

A Metal alloy made of composite metals, seperates Hydrogen and oxygen on contact- Allows cars to run on water from the seperated gasses.

Other water powered car engine ideas, all seemingly squashed without evidence or trace...

Then

Anti Gravity - we would all like that, what a toy...

Can anyone drag a screaming piece of evidence into the light and ask some awkward questions, a bit like this...

These technologies are amazing, they would probably have a high chance of slowing down or stopping the damage to our 'Spaceship', earth.

Of course they are also energy saving and do not need a lot of OIL...

Cant IMAGINE why these technologies aren't brought forward...

Probably 'Money+Greed'?

if the technologies mentioned above, do exist, and do we have any evidence to suggest that these technologies will be for general release to the public any time before Global warning (m) (yeah hyperdimensional heat :)) )

J aka 'Brian'

PS can we spend $333 on these ideas at least?

28/7/05 9:30 AM  
Anonymous said...

I remember watching the tv show Space 1999 way back when, maybe it should have been called Space 2099, I guess the producers were overjoyed at the seemingly great expectations of this country.

28/7/05 10:31 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Update from space weather.com

METEOR SHOWER: Mark your calendar: The Perseid meteor shower peaks on Friday morning, August 12th, and it should be a good show. [full story]

SOMETHING'S COMING: A big active sunspot group is lurking just behind the sun's eastern limb. How do we know? It keeps exploding and throwing clouds of hot magnetized gas into space. Andreas Murner of Bavaria, Germany took this snapshot of one such blast on July 27th:

Two events here coincide a few days either side of two dramatic events happening on the 14th and 15 of August and of course a few days of the 7th when the shuttle lands...

METEOR SHOWER: August 12th

Ark of Covenant discovery: August 14th Ark to be revealed.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover062905.htm

Israeli Gaza pullout August 15th...

http://news.google.com.ag/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=israeli+gaza+pullout

and of course

Shuttle to land on 7th of August.

Coincidently to see an accidental or coincidental link between the number 6 and the coincidence in the symbology of

1. Freemasonary - accident?
2. Israeli flag - Six P Star

I've illustrated the SIX points here:

http://numerology-in-goverment-555.blogspot.com/

What if the support of the Israel by the USA is predominantly to do with the close link to God's original chosen nation?

Would anyone playing with an ancient artefact linked in the bible to the most high with supposed supenatural properties, not be actually picking up the phone to God directly.

After all, can you imagine touching 'the' ancient artefact written about thousands of years ago and there not be a side affect?

Not to rant on about the coincidences to much, but looking at the ancient biblical priests who visited the Ark in it's place in the most holy, ONLY ONCE A YEAR, had to have, a rope tied around their waist so they could drag them out if they died before God for not being clean mentally spiritualy etc.

Just to make the point briefly, this was God being 'NICE'.

These were 'THE' Priests of 'his' chosen nation...

Might start a thread on this alone...

Anyone think it's worth it?

28/7/05 10:42 AM  
Steve said...

I think the electric universe guys have said the space elevator is a bad idea because it would act as a giant lightning rod or something. I forget the details, but it was something like that.

Those guys have some interesting hypotheses.

28/7/05 11:03 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

OK, starting to see a pattern

Shuttle to return on the 7th with 7 crew.

7 days later, on the 14th the Ark of Covenant to be revealed...

is that coincidence?

http://ark-of-covenant.blogspot.com/

Come on NASA, are you kidding with all this coincidence...

Dont you think it's starting to get a little more obvious?

sigh...

J aka 'Brian'

28/7/05 11:18 AM  
SunKing said...

Anonymous,
Yeah, Space 1999 was a good series. I waited for that every week. SciFi should blow-off the stupid horror flicks and re-run that!

Aug. 14th....my birthday! And won't that be something if they find the Ark of the Covenant!

And our COURSE, that IS one reason why we support Israel!

28/7/05 11:32 AM  
Rob in DC said...

This just in - heard that the military 'complex' was conducting research on the Tempel 1 'comet' post impact 2 weeks ago (and possible upocimg hyper-sun solar activity) and couldn't let the Shuttle launch as "they" might see the activity that was taking place in space.

This is why a lone fuel gauge apparently had an unidentified problem which caused NASA to scrap the launch.

They needed to clear 'space' so that the shuttle and all of the attention that goes with it could be put safely in orbit without the chance that the military's ongoing efforts in space are exposed.

They are up there - just out of site...

28/7/05 11:33 AM  
Anonymous said...

Juergen said...

I am elated that the Chinese are forging into space and I pray they have a faster rate of going to the moon and to your planet Mr. Hoagland… Mars! Because, if they (the Chinese) discover what Mars has to offer, the U.S.A. would be left in the Martian dust (by discovering all the ancient libraries, machines and advance technology) this knowledge the U.S.A. could have first instead of the Chinese!

If the Chinese are gearing up for space, is it possible there would be a Space race? As long as the U.S.A. is the only player in the world, there is NO competition. We need someone to kick are behind to get us (U.S.A.) going! And as you and I know, THE U.S.A. ..CAN …AND WE WILL DO IT once were challenged!!!

============

I would bet that NASA does not want anyone except NASA to view, contact or collect any ancient relics or establish contact with any living ET entities. I agree with Juergen...another serious competitor in the space race will get our focus sharpened again. I do remember the cancellations of the Apollo missions and the stunned silence from the astronuat community following the decision. Have we been back to the moon to study the relics closer? Time will tell.

Too bad more NASA insiders can't/won't come forward and discuss these topics with Richard. How about retired NASA personnel, surely there's someone who wants to set the record straight.

28/7/05 11:35 AM  
PIF said...

A note on the Chinese space efforts - I've followed it closely, and while at first they seemed gung ho, they lately backed away from their previous urgency to go to the moon. Why? IMHO it may be that building up their military to take Taiwan is soaking up funds from their space program (expensive Russian planes, ships, tanks and stealing and making stuff from us - like Aegis). In any case it will be years before even their original estimates of progress would spur any sort of 'space race.'

28/7/05 11:50 AM  
Brian C said...

I don't know if HG Wells was connected to Freemasonry or not, but check out some of his lesser-known writings.. such as "The New World Order", and "The Open Conspiracy: Blurprint for World Revolution"


"[Gravity] isn't a particle that can have an anti-particle."

Is magnetic repulsion caused by "anti-magnetons"?

There is a fascinating resurgence of unified "aether" theories recently. Of course the word "aether" is still considered taboo by the mainstream, so we have all these new terms for it like "quantum medium", "zero point field", etc.

It is interesting how terminology can affect someone's acceptance of a concept. For example, talking about "hyperdimensional physics" might get you some strange looks, but talk about "String Theory" (which is also based on higher level dimensions) and you're on safe ground.

28/7/05 12:19 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Brian c you made a good point:

"The New World Order"

by creating a Police security state, aren't people effectively surrendering the personal rights given by God and coming under the total control the state?

Thinking that the start of the new Patriot act, the talk of drafting soldiers and other mutterings of a swift pull out of Iraq, are only leading to one thing, a police state.

Didn't he also write about that ;)

hmmm...

33rd degree or not, it seems to be inspiring somebody...

'Brian'

"I'm not the doom bringer, I'm the doom bringers son, just here prophesying doom, till the doom bringer comes"

28/7/05 12:33 PM  
Koby said...

While the general public is talking about the "tiles issue" cause it's "HEADLINE NEWS" this is just a small part of what they are doing to you and your children...

http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/28/news/economy/energy_congress.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

In short...
$14.5 billion in tax breaks and incentives over 10 years, nearly $9 billion is earmarked for oil and gas, electricity and coal companies. Less than $5 billion will be spent on energy efficiency and renewable energy programs.

TAX BREAKS!!! for a company like this.....
"On Thursday, Exxon Mobil Corp. (Research) reported a 32 percent jump in its quarterly profits to $7.64 billion."

Another quote...
""Right now Adam Smith is spinning in his grave so fast that he would qualify for a subsidy in this bill as an energy source," said Democrat Edward Markey of Massachusetts. "This bill is a political and moral and technological failure."

The final version of the bill dropped some environmentally friendly measures, such as the Senate's requirement that the federal government find ways to cut oil demand and improve fuel mileage for gas guzzlers."


We are all sheep to the corporations.

AND this has everything to do with NASA and the current trends.

28/7/05 12:34 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

"This bill is a political and moral and technological failure."

good point koby, the prominent part for me was "MORAL"...

there seems to be growing imorralities, with this administration...

Take this brief example regarding the computer game Grand Theft Auto.

It's a game about;
1. killing
2. Homicide
3. Murder in the 1st degree
4. stealing
5. shooting police

And congress got upset about...

6. porn.

Please...

The whole game should be rated XXXX as it covers the entire spectrum of what was illegal in the bible...

But as ever MAN's law is right of course...

Wondering why God would come back a little upset with earthlings...

Just ranting again ;)

Sigh...

J aka 'Brian'

28/7/05 12:45 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

...another quick case point example...

Eminent Domain...

A law that was put into statute by the supreme court.

To summarise the Finality of the law in it's initial release and it's proabable ultimate translation;

If you thought you owned your land you dont, it still belongs to the US government, if they think something better should be there.

But dont worry they will give you a contribution to what it's worth?

I know already there is loud talk of lawyers wading in to put blunts on the tips of this law...

But still...

Potential worse case scenario:

If my family had owned a piece of land in a good place for many generations, why would I allow somebody to take it away from me?

Morality where is it?

And back to the shuttle...

NASA, with the increasingly coincidental numerology patterns emerging have a lot to answer for morally...

Staying tuned...

28/7/05 12:52 PM  
Brian C said...

jasgrave333 wrote...
"After all, can you imagine touching 'the' ancient [Ark of the Covenant] written about thousands of years ago and there not be a side affect?

Not to rant on about the coincidences to much, but looking at the ancient biblical priests who visited the Ark in it's place in the most holy, ONLY ONCE A YEAR, had to have, a rope tied around their waist so they could drag them out if they died before God for not being clean mentally spiritualy etc."



If you're interested in the Ark, I highly suggest you read "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" by Sir Laurence Gardner for a fascinating and well researched theory about the nature and history of the Ark.

Consider:

The Ark is described as a wooden box, with extremely thin gold plating on the inside and outside, a gold lid, and two mysterious protrubrances on top (they are called "cherubim" in modern translations of the Bible, but this may be somewhat of a guess as to what the original word meant).

What also fits this description exactly? An electrical capacitor is two highly conductive materials (gold sheeting) separated by an insulator (wood), and sports a pair of terminals. The "light of God" which sat on top of the Ark could literally have been electrical arcing between the two terminals. The measures the priests had to take when approaching the Ark, such as having a rope tied around them, walking barefoot, not to mention the instant death some of them suffered on contact, all fit perfectly with the dangers of electrocution.

Also, a capacitor will pick up a charge naturally from the atmosphere, particularly in areas with a lot of static electricity, like the Sinai desert for example. Another thing an abundance of static electricity can cause is St Elmo's Fire... which could explain the "burning bush"...


Disclaimer: Just because I think some biblical "miracles" could potentially have scientific explanations, doesn't mean I think it proves that the Bible is "wrong" or God doesn't exist or anything. God and science are not mutually exclusive concepts. :) I do tend to reject the notion that the Bible is an infallible and 100% accurate work though.

28/7/05 12:57 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

SunKing said...
Anonymous,
Yeah, Space 1999 was a good series. I waited for that every week. SciFi should blow-off the stupid horror flicks and re-run that!

Aug. 14th....my birthday! And won't that be something if they find the Ark of the Covenant!

And our COURSE, that IS one reason why we support Israel!

28/7/05 11:32 AM

Sunking, I was thinking a little earlier about the ramifications of this...

I'm married and therefore own a wedding band.

The wedding band symbolises my devotion and partnership in marriage.

So just owning a wedding band is enough to keep my wife?

Of course not, she needs attention conversation and a lot of bling bling.

So owning or possessing THE Ark of the Covenant alone will not protect anyone, in fact it would do the opposite.

The owner of the Ark i.e. God, is not bound by convention as we have your Ark, I'm sure he can build plenty more, the point is, upsetting a super being on purpose by touching something that was precious to him is likely to invoke an adverse reaction to the toucher...

Owning a wedding ring does not protect you from your wife, believe me ;)

$0.02

J aka 'Brian'

28/7/05 1:01 PM  
djbarney said...

There's a lot of pressure on this system and it needs releasing

28/7/05 1:04 PM  
zen_on_mars said...

Richard, It has become apparent that there are those over at the Space.com message boards who believe you are instructing your "fans" to wage a spam campaign to "destroy" their cyber domain. To prove to these folks that openness is the hallmark of the Enterprise Mission, and your personal credo, I here re-post my responses to those allegations. I think it is important for any "new" friends here to hear the truth straight, before experiencing any of this stuff first hand:

"Very.....CHALLENGING ideas, to be sure. Richard's Enterprise Mission chat board has hundreds of members, and the small handful of "us" who post here remains the same - only a handful. Richard has not assembled an army of "followers" to "invade" here, nor is he out to "oppose" you specifically. Richard seeks to oppose NASA/JPL disingeuousness. The fact that he references Space.com now is (in my opinion only) that
A) He is aware of our (myself, Max, Gene, etc) history here since the Cassinni fly-by of Iapetus
B) He is aware that Space.com represents the single largest and most well-known meeting place for amature and professional people interested in space sciences and NASA/JPL missions
C) He has directly experienced certain writers of the Space.com online magazine, wittingly or unwittingly, participating in a systematic and unscientific series of journalistic assaults on his ideas, reputation, and motives. These have been, yes, POLITICALLY motivated journalistic attacks that seem totally "out of place" for "professionals" who could simply ignore him, but instead "show their hand" and their true political allegiances by having participated in said "science journalism"
D) Richard is very aware of the "half-life" of the attention spans of media-saavy Americans. He knows what the Deep Impact team also seems to know: that citizens and science-media professionals alike, tend to "lose interest" in space "news stories" after many months elapse. It is Richard's sole motivations to get ALL of us here, and across America, to question the "annomalies" as concerns the Deep Impact Mission team and it's conflicting public statements, it's lack so far of any reference of aquired spectra data, and the bizarre non-release of the 4500 photo's of the impact and it's finale.

It is amazing to me that those journalists in the Science Media industry have not been asking the questions of the Deep Impact team that Richard has been asking on his blog site. If he seems to wish to "stomp us down", please rethink the urgency of assembling thinking, science-saavy Americans NOW to demand of the Media, the Deep Impact Team, NASA/JPL, and the Washington leaderships that are about to fund our President's vision of "to the Moon, Mars, and Beyond", to DEMAND the open communicative disclosure of all data and perhaps even simply a cursory INTERPRETATION of the data collected to date.

Before the whole issue fades from public consciousness.

Thank-you for allowing me to respond to what appears to be a very sincere open letter of concerns.
PS. If "you" all, everyone here, "debate subjects in our own style, in our own way", it wouldn't be much of a debate, would it?"

------------
"Spamming" message boards with this url is not a tactic that even slightly works, as I am sure you agree. Open COMMUNICATION does.
This mission succeeds only if aware citizens, professional and amature alike, percieve the shortcomings of scientific accountability which has characterized NASA/JPL for so long.

Thank-you, Richard and readers, for this indulgence of your time.

28/7/05 1:08 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

'Brian C'

Whole heartedly agree to your disclaimer;

"Disclaimer: Just because I think some biblical "miracles" could potentially have scientific explanations, doesn't mean I think it proves that the Bible is "wrong" or God doesn't exist or anything. God and science are not mutually exclusive concepts. :) I do tend to reject the notion that the Bible is an infallible and 100% accurate work though."

Yep, Revelation is probably the *MOST* reliable book.

I've yet to underline theological sholering on the new Testament on Pauls Writings...

Somthing odd happens when Paul(Saul) starts writing...

2 Thes 2:1-12 gives a clue as to what...

I've explained as much this as possible here: jasgrave333.blogspot.com

Still if you look at the three coincidences here:

5th Book in the bible

5th Chapter

5th Verse

5th Word

The fifth word in a Jehovah's Witness bible is:

Jehovah

Revelation 5:5

5 But one of the elders says to me: "Stop weeping. Look! The Lion that is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals."

may explain why Revelation remains untampered with here:

Rev 22:18-19 18 “I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll."

Also agreeing on the scientific hypothesis greatly...

Who said that Jehovah didnt have angels wondering around in spaceships with advanced technology.

Simply enough the bible alludes to many things things that were too advanced for 'the Darwin theory' to be a reality...

We have de-generated and now after some period of Quarantine away from our Anscestors, we have the coming of these 'Angels' in whatever transportation they use to ultimately deliver retribution for screwing up Craft 'Earth 1'

Of course all the above is part rant little fact, but mostly based on seeing God's sense of humour too, it would serve all religious people right if he turned up in a freaking huge Space travelling craft...

Yep, I'd be happy with that, also we know that God is a spirit, hugely advanced life form...

Who are we too mess with an ancient capacitor used for communicating with the Most high...

Oh Lord...

Rosebead anyone?

28/7/05 1:14 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Koby said...

"All this reminds me of sitting in departmental meetings where I used to work.
"TONS of great ideas... but unfortunately only the ones that don't scare the stockholders make it to fruition.
"It's all about the $$$ people. Those without it want a change and those with it will not let go.
"I've said it before, even Richard (and other honest researhers) are profiting from the current trends."

Koby,

We DO have the $$$. Think, even if there are only 50,000,000 people in this country (or the WORLD??) who would want to support a private space venture, it would only take $100 a person to have a $5 billion bank account. We DO have all the resources it takes. All we need now is the collective will to do it.

PLEASE, if anybody is even remotely interested in this idea, leave a comment on my blog (fusionofthought.blogspot.com) or leave a comment here, or SOMETHING!

I am an engineer by training and a visionary by nature. I am willing to WORK on this problem if I can find a group of people as serious and enthusiastic as I am.

Please don't label me a kook because I insist that the average Joe's of the world can go to space. I know we can do it, if we WANT to. I am serious. Are you guys? Let's stop dreaming and start living... living our dreams.

28/7/05 1:25 PM  
TempleMaster333 said...

brian c,
I think that the story of the Ark of the Covenant being a capacitor is a little bit of a stretch, unless Mark Twain somehow participated in writing Scripture and inserted his unique skills of exaggeration. A cursory examination of the dimensions and composition of the Ark would indicate that such a structure could not possess more than a few microFarads of capacitance. Now, we know that the Ark was used to destroy armies, level mountain tops, possibly used to part the Jordan river, topple large heathen idols and last but not least, incinerate careless priests who did not follow the relentless rules of the Ark's operating procedure. The energy contained in a capacitor is (1/2)(C)(V^2), i.e., one half of the capacitance (in Farads) times the square of the voltage. Let's be real generous and give the Ark 10 micro Farads of capacitance, as measured between the wingtips of the little cherubim. Let's also say that atmospheric electricity could charge our capacitor to 10,000 Volts before dirt and moisture caused the charge to start leaking away. That would yield an available discharge energy of (1/2)(10^-5)((10^4)^2) = 500 Joules. Now, if I were using a laser, I could punch a pretty good hole in something with that amount of energy and an electrical discharge releasing that much energy could burn down a tree and vitrify some sand. It may even fry a priest or two, but as far as geological alterations, that would be way off base. In order to interpret stories like the Ark, we need to find the correct historical context (or "filter") with which to view it.
best regards

28/7/05 1:38 PM  
Bill Thompson said...

Richard,

Thank you for the phenominal work you are doing with TEM. It's shocking to realize that "our" Space Agency has so consistantly pulled the wool over our eyes for so long--indeed, since its inception.

I had some questions about NASA's work with the Shuttle's "foam upgrade" that perhaps you have been apprised of by your insider contacts. As I understand it, (and this is public release, so it may not be true) the original CFC foam that was used, what I shall refer to as Stickifoam(R), worked well and did NOT flake off.

Our Government determined that Stickifoam caused ozone depletion, global warming, civil unrest, dogs to bark, children to cry, EPA pundits to run in tight circles mumbling "we're all gonna die," and who knows what else.

NASA then switched to Crumblifoam(R), which had the unfortunate side effect of sloughing off at 5K MPH, causing the loss of the most complex piece of antique machinery ever created by man. After over 2 years and billions of taxpayer dollars, NASA comes up with Crumblifoam II(R)...which does exactly the same thing.

Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but a few ideas come to mind. Do you know if these ideas had been bandied about and rejected for some reason...?

1) Government agencies make exceptions for themselves all the time; it's de rigeur. Why didn't they make an agreement with the EPA to use Stickifoam, under controlled conditions, ONLY on the side of the ET that faces the Orbiter? It seems to be obvious that CFC foam is the only thing that'll work. Cutting the amount of CFCs by 50-60% seems a fair compromise with human lives and billion-dollar machines at stake.

2) Protect the Orbiter's underside tiles! A spray-on, lightweight, low melting point "liner" would absorb the hits of any errant foam and/or ice, and would boil off early in the re-entry procedure, well before the tiles came to bear. (I'll leave the composition of said "liner" to the real rocket scientists.)

Of course, the skeptic in me has to ask the question:
3) What did NASA really spend those billions of dollars on? As a government agency, diverting funds and false accounting is also de rigeur. Perhaps the reformulation, the delays, and the scrutiny were all just another NASA smokescreen while the Shuttle sat idle.

Any ideas on this will be eagerly appreciated. Thanks again for all you are doing for the cause of truth!
--Bill Thompson.

28/7/05 2:05 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Fusion knight, good points

"Koby,

We DO have the $$$. Think, even if there are only 50,000,000 people in this country (or the WORLD??) who would want to support a private space venture, it would only take $100 a person to have a $5 billion bank account. We DO have all the resources it takes. All we need now is the collective will to do it."

Sounds like a 'TEAM Blog' coming on, solving the ultimate issue...

The lack of any credible information on the behalf of our Goverments to release data from all the UFO sightings and finds.

Including all space mission data and otherwise.

If we all live in this world, aren't we entitled by the very creed of existance in this world, to know ALL there is about it.

The data and facts need to be imediately disclosed to the public.

What is there to hide if there is no data and no facts.

I would like to see one honest honest person from a goverment agency (Am larfing even writing this 'honest', would that be hard?) to address us, the public about OUR Universe, I think we are all entitled to know?

OR is our job merely to serve the machine of Goverment?

Just questions...

J aka 'Brian'

28/7/05 2:39 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Brian,

Isn't all the politics a good reason to go and do it ourselves, and see with our own eyes?

28/7/05 2:53 PM  
templemaster333 said...

What is needed is a "kinder, gentler" type of insulation for those liquid oxygen and hydrogen fuel tanks. I mean, it really only needs to function properly and insulate for a relatively short time from the launch pad to final burnout, right? Why not use some kind of spray-on ,mulched up cardboard material like the crap my builder sprayed in my attic. ( made to higher government specifications, of course!) If it comes off, the pieces will be to small and light to function as projectiles. What would the insulation properties and thickness have to be to provide adequate coverage? (I would visualize this best if somebody could express it as a k- factor in Newton's law of cooling)

28/7/05 3:29 PM  
Koby said...

Fusion knight...
I like your ideas, but even in your "private venture" politics will stick it's ugly head in there eventually... ESPECIALLY when you sing to the tune of $5 billion dollars.

28/7/05 3:33 PM  
Anonymous said...

anonymous said:

"...there is not, and will not be, enough monetary resources to build all the infrastructural instrumentalities that will be required to send manned missions, on a permanent basis, to the moons, and planets...

We fumbled, and then dropped the football, as a nation.
We won't have another chance...

Forget it Hoagland.
Isn't 50 years of "nothing" enough to convince you that it's finished. But then again, isn't it best to die fighting. So keep charging at the windmills. What the heck. Hoagland's theme song, for me, is, "Beethoven's 5th Symphony"

In place of conspiracy theories I think the biggest monster we face is human imcompetence at all levels, within all races, and both genders. Stupidity, ignorance, me-ism, them-ism, blame-ism, laziness, greed."

didn't you forgot something...

I think you know what it is...

WHY IS NOT INLCUDED IN LONG, SMARTY-PANTS LIST ABOVE, GONADS?

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/weeee.php

28/7/05 3:35 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Koby,

One of the things I would try VERY hard to maintain is transparency in all aspects and levels of the project and organization. Then everybody knows where the money goes, what it's used for, how the project is going, etc. It's like open source space travel. Think about how well Linux works! Or Wikipedia!

It CAN be done.

28/7/05 3:59 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Richard,

I don't want to intrude into your blogosphere by posting "commercials", but I thought this is something potentially important to us both; and everybody else who visits these pages.

I've set up a separate blog called "The Gallileo Proposal" (http://galileoproposal.blogspot.com) to discuss the the reality of a private space venture.

If anybody is even remotely interested, please stop by and contribute. It's only when all the good folks of the world get together that anything good gets done.

28/7/05 4:12 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

darn it's tropical in St Kitt's today...

so

Temple master333:
TempleMaster333 said...
"brian c,
I think that the story of the Ark of the Covenant being a capacitor is a little bit of a stretch, unless Mark Twain somehow participated in writing Scripture and inserted his unique skills of exaggeration. A cursory examination of the dimensions and composition of the Ark would indicate that such a structure could not possess more than a few microFarads of capacitance. Now, we know that the Ark was used to destroy armies, level mountain tops, possibly used to part the Jordan river, topple large heathen idols and last but not least, incinerate careless priests who did not follow the relentless rules of the Ark's operating procedure. The energy contained in a capacitor is (1/2)(C)(V^2), i.e., one half of the capacitance (in Farads) times the square of the voltage. Let's be real generous and give the Ark 10 micro Farads of capacitance, as measured between the wingtips of the little cherubim"

I'd just want to comment on this on my own behalf... (not Brian C but the other one :)

The Ark, I didnt remember getting my replica version in the post recently, but biblicaly accounts of things explained by big latin words today, does not translate into it couldnt and how could it in any negative sense.

According to the bible Noah built a huge ark with wood and got a bunch of animals through what was monsoon to the power 10.

Pretty hard to explain stuff with the language used.

but still I'm ranting again... :)

dont mean anything by it... just wanted to make this point:

we dont know, this is a probable first, and probably not a good omen, if you believe in weather reports...

Fusion Knight said...
Brian,

Isn't all the politics a good reason to go and do it ourselves, and see with our own eyes?

28/7/05 2:53 PM

FK, If you believe ancient prophecy, it's already prophesied to happen, we just have to wait. apparently they are going to be forced to tell the truth.

Not sure in what form that's coming, but the current composite signs of the times right now match a few eye opening things...

You remember temple 1...

Mark 13:1
"temple one" is on the first verse without a comma between the temple and one in a JW bible, wierd?

www.watchtower.org/bible/

check it out...

important?

Well that was Jesus prophecy of the last days... ;)

J aka 'Brian'

But to go with your

28/7/05 4:43 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

temple master 333, nearly spat my drink out of my nose when I read this "cardboard material like the crap my builder sprayed in my attic."

yep cheap cheap consumable crap...

Peoples lives are relying on this crap though that's the only difference, the commercial crap in our attics just keeps us snug, seven crew are putting their lives on that stuff :-/

J aka 'Brian'

28/7/05 4:45 PM  
Brian C said...

TempleMaster333 said...

"brian c,
I think that the story of the Ark of the Covenant being a capacitor is a little bit of a stretch..."


Thanks for the technical breakdown, and healthy skepticism! :)

I just wanted to cover the basics in my post... There is a lot more in "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" that I did not mention however, but I will endeavour to expand a bit on here...

A great deal of the book concerns a mysterious substance mentioned in ancient texts, referred to as "Manna" in the Bible. This stuff seems to be being rediscovered today.. google for "microclusters" or "ormus". Essentially, they consist of the platinum group metals reduced to very tiny groupings of atoms. It has evaded scientific detection for a long time because it does not yield results through standard spectrographic analysis. At this scale, remarkable (many would say "miraculous") properties seem to exhibit themselves, including superconductivity at biological temperatures (we apparently possess this material in our bodies, 5% of the brain by dry weight, many have speculated it provides a bridge between mind and body), levitation (I believe the theory is because the superconducting Meissner field excludes all magnetic fields, including the Earth's), and consciousness expansion and astonishing healing capabilities when consumed.

- Supposedly the secret of "alchemy" is "divide, divide, divide". This fits nicely with the idea of breaking down elements into microclusters of atoms.

- When Moses returned with the ten commandments and found his people had constructed a golden calf, he does something quite strange... he breaks the calf down into powder, and forces them to eat it!

- In Revelations, it says "Blessed be the man who shall overcome, for he shall be given the hidden manna, the white stone of the purest kind upon which will be written a new name."

There are tons of people doing experiments with this stuff out there. There are commercial products available, and people have come up with a large variety of homemade devices which can be used to separate this stuff from the environment and/or "charge" it. A site with a lot of info about this is subtleenergies.com. I haven't found the time to really experiment with this stuff myself yet, but I do personally know someone who had advanced testicular cancer, conventional western medicine wasn't helping, so he dropped that and tried this stuff (a "white gold" product), and he is now completely healed.

Anyway, Gardner believes this material was carried about in the Ark (the Bible refers to a pot of manna in the Ark), and could be responsible for the Ark's miraculous powers. In particular, he calculates that the weight of just the lid of the Ark would be several thousand pounds (several inches of solid gold), and impossible to carry without some form of levitation. There are accounts (Jewish in origin?) of priests literally being picked up and carried by the Ark. It is also extremely interesting to me that the word "levitation" comes from "levites" (the sons of Levi), a priestly sect who were directly involved with the Ark.

It has been conjectured that this class of substances may be the root behind many ancient "myths", such as the aforementioned Manna, the fountain of youth, the Holy Grail ("grail" comes from mesopotamian "graal", which means "nectar of supreme excellence"), and the philosopher's stone (instead of a stone which converts base metals into gold, it literally IS gold, just another form).

Some of the Annunaki legends speculate that they came to Earth to mine this substance.

28/7/05 4:47 PM  
dan perez said...

I don't know if any of you are watching NBC Nightly news right now but Brian Williams is doing the newscast while standing in front of the Shuttle Enterprise.

28/7/05 4:48 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Brian C, this is excellent stuff...
"
Brian C said...
TempleMaster333 said...

"brian c,
I think that the story of the Ark of the Covenant being a capacitor is a little bit of a stretch..."

Thanks for the technical breakdown, and healthy skepticism! :)

I just wanted to cover the basics in my post... There is a lot more in "Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark" that I did not mention however, but I will endeavour to expand a bit on here..."

Like I said, I didnt get my school lesson on Ark of Covenant design, so this is excellent information.

And the comet Temple 1 (Mark 13:1) is made of a material like "Sand" wonder if a composite material of an even more superior quality is up there?

Well the mana was the Food of Angels...

it fell appeared every day on the floor of the wilderness during the Israelite exile in the 40 years before going into the promised land.

Yes Livites Levitate

Interesting then that it says at Mat 24:15, 16 "...let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains..."

And Revelation 5:5

"...the Lion that is the root of Judah has conquered to open the Seven Seals"

Judea and Lion of Judah

One could draw all kind of conclusions from explosive scriptures like that...

J aka 'Brian'

"I'm not the doom bringer I'm the doom bringers son, I'm just here prophesying doom till the doom bringer comes"

28/7/05 5:23 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Anonymous,

>Talk about GROUND HOGS DAY

>Get this, coincidence not.

>Columbia STS-107
Launch: 1/16/03
10:39am EST

>Discovery STS-114
Launch: 7/26/05
10:39am EDT<

Yes. And, there's is more ... for a future "Captain's Blog."

28/7/05 5:58 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Michael,

>It's interesting that NASA is more eager to publish photos of their crumbling Space Shuttle than publishing the findings of a recent success story (the Tempel 1 mission).<

As we've noticed ....

>Since I don't believe they suddenly got a taste for self flagellation, this really looks like someone is fabricating a justification for stopping all (civil?) space missions.<

Now, THAT'S a very interesting perspective. We will be exploring precisely this in a future "Captain's Blog."

28/7/05 6:11 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Paul,

>>I ask you what are the alternate means? Gravity is an illusion created by large objects bending space, like putting a bowling ball in the middle of your mattress, it isn't a particle that can have an anti-particle. As great as it sounds anti-gravity machines are fiction.<<

>Gravity is the result of aether flow not bent space and hence can be modified by adjusting the aether flow. Anti-gravity is demonstrable quite easily above a spinning superconductor. The Searl effect produces anti-gravity and a working craft was made using this. Also sound waves can also be used to generate anti-gravity effects.<

Good answer to the previous [ >> <<} comment.

Yes, the "aether" EXISTS ... and CAN be modified to produce major "anti-gravitational" effects. Several "black programs" in the DOD have overwhelmingly demonstrated this across the lifetime of the "open" NASA Shuttle Program.

The details of this research will be discussed at length in several future "Captain's Blogs" -- as well as in my next major appearance on "Coast," the night of August 7th ....

Stay tuned. :)

28/7/05 6:19 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Firestarter,

>Richard Hoagland, I listen to you on Coast2Coast and read you here, quite a bit as of late.
You'ev been saying "stay tuned" all along in your recent posts..wi wonder if you do that generally all the time, or is it something you want your audience to actually keep their heads up for something you have to say soon. I heard you on C2C saying that you have somethign *BIG* to report very soon..some information that has been leaked to you...is that what you are reinferring by the "stay tuned" in your comments? And in how long will this be?<

I DO have "something BIG" coming up of Deep Impact, so yes, stay tuned for that ... :)

But, more in general, I end these pieces that way because there is ALWAYS something new coming out of our research ... so, if you DON'T pay careful attention, you'll miss it. So, stay tuned. :)

28/7/05 6:43 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Brude,

>As far as future, better ways to get people and payloads to space, the best possibility seems to be the space elevator concept. Thought to be an impossible and dangerous fantasy even just a decade or so ago, many engineers now think it is not only possible, but could be achieved within a decade to fifteen years if an Apollo-sized program were put forward to develop the remaining technologies and pay for its construction.

Yes, Space Elevators SHOULD be thoroughly investigated. So far, however, there are ONLY private efforts, NOT any NASA ones -- as I reported in my "Moon with a View" series on "Enterprise" ....

>(Richard, is this what you were talking about was forthcoming?)<

No. That MAJOR analysis will be about what they're hiding from the Deep Impact Mission, so stay ... well, you know. :)

28/7/05 6:55 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

TempleMaster333,


>Perhaps an electromagnetic drive could be based on the HOMO-POLAR generator you discussed sometime back in one of your hyperdimensional write-ups. After reading that, I became very curious if I could build a generator that would produce the same voltage as calculated from Faraday's induction law, even if the magnet and the conductor were rotating at the same angular speed with no relative motion between them.I constructed a simple test device using a small but extremely powerful rare earth ring magnet inserted into a copper pipe endcap. I placed this assembly on an axle and rotated it at high speed on a drill press. I then measured the d.c. voltage between the center axis and the endcap edge.It was only a few millivolts, but it was very close to what I calculated using Faraday's induction law. I then removed the magnet and spun the assembly again. There was no output this time. This was enough to convince me that the effect is probably real. Great effort would be required to increase the voltage output to a usable level,generate tremendous rotational speed and get the weight way down so that "zero point" is greatly exceeded for perpetual power generation on the scale necessary to drive a spacecraft. You have probably seen the "NAZI UFO" websites which claim that the VRIL Scociety in pre-WW2 Germany obtained knowledge of some kind of electromagnetic propulsion system from an alien race . This was supposedly the basis for later SS-run flying disc projects. There are photos of a VRIL type disc(fake?) with what looks like a 20mm cannon slung from the belly. These craft were said to use stellar navigation, as no compass could survive in the powerful magnetic fields generated by the drive. (Was this HOMO-POLAR drive?) One of these discs supposedly docked with the Q-ship ATLANTIS in the middle of the South Atlantic. Cute story. I guess all of the VRIL squadrons would be based beneath Lake Vostok in Antarctica at this point.<

Yes, the Faraday homo-polar generator is real.... and unexplained by current physics .... It is NOT, however, "anti-gravity." It IS a step "on the way" .... :)

The most credible source of data on the Nazi anti-gravity experiments is Nick Cook -- the award-winning journalist with Jane's Defense Weekly, the leading military-aerospace international journal. Cook wrote a book a few years ago which is a MUST read for anyone interested in what the "black defense world" REALLY knows (and can do) in terms of anti-gravity. It's called "The Hunt for Zero-Point" ... at all major bookstores, or on Amazon. :)

28/7/05 7:25 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Zen_on_Mars,

>Richard, It has become apparent that there are those over at the Space.com message boards who believe you are instructing your "fans" to wage a spam campaign to "destroy" their cyber domain. To prove to these folks that openness is the hallmark of the Enterprise Mission, and your personal credo, I here re-post my responses to those allegations. I think it is important for any "new" friends here to hear the truth straight, before experiencing any of this stuff first hand:

>"Very.....CHALLENGING ideas, to be sure. Richard's Enterprise Mission chat board has hundreds of members, and the small handful of "us" who post here remains the same - only a handful. Richard has not assembled an army of "followers" to "invade" here, nor is he out to "oppose" you specifically. Richard seeks to oppose NASA/JPL disingeuousness. The fact that he references Space.com now is (in my opinion only) that

>A) He is aware of our (myself, Max, Gene, etc) history here since the Cassinni fly-by of Iapetus

>B) He is aware that Space.com represents the single largest and most well-known meeting place for amature and professional people interested in space sciences and NASA/JPL missions

>C) He has directly experienced certain writers of the Space.com online magazine, wittingly or unwittingly, participating in a systematic and unscientific series of journalistic assaults on his ideas, reputation, and motives. These have been, yes, POLITICALLY motivated journalistic attacks that seem totally "out of place" for "professionals" who could simply ignore him, but instead "show their hand" and their true political allegiances by having participated in said "science journalism"

>D) Richard is very aware of the "half-life" of the attention spans of media-saavy Americans. He knows what the Deep Impact team also seems to know: that citizens and science-media professionals alike, tend to "lose interest" in space "news stories" after many months elapse. It is Richard's sole motivations to get ALL of us here, and across America, to question the "annomalies" as concerns the Deep Impact Mission team and it's conflicting public statements, it's lack so far of any reference of aquired spectra data, and the bizarre non-release of the 4500 photo's of the impact and it's finale.

>It is amazing to me that those journalists in the Science Media industry have not been asking the questions of the Deep Impact team that Richard has been asking on his blog site. If he seems to wish to "stomp us down", please rethink the urgency of assembling thinking, science-saavy Americans NOW to demand of the Media, the Deep Impact Team, NASA/JPL, and the Washington leaderships that are about to fund our President's vision of "to the Moon, Mars, and Beyond", to DEMAND the open communicative disclosure of all data and perhaps even simply a cursory INTERPRETATION of the data collected to date.

>Before the whole issue fades from public consciousness.<

Right on! :)

What's even more astonishing than NASA's curious ability to be so "open" on a Program like the Shuttle ... and so "closed" on a Program like Deep Impact, is the unwillingness of ANYONE at Space.com to question NASA on ANY of this ... even after they've demonstrably KILLED members "of their own family" with their PROVEN negligence and "not invented here" (as documented by the CAIB Report) mindset ....

Where is the questioning of NASA on ANY of these fronts ... but here?

28/7/05 8:27 PM  
Anonymous said...

Richard,

Do you have any comments to make about this statement from Dr. Colette M. Dowell?

Well, I do not know how to say this with out sounding a bit harsh , but I will try. I am one of the oldies in the space world. I knew Tricky Dick very well. I worked closely with him from 1988/9 to 1992 , which was the date of the United Nations presentation given in New York City to the paraspychology department about the Face on Mars, the Crop Cirlces, Carl Munck's Code and John Anthony West and on and on. Oh yes, David Percy and the Avebury/ Silbury Earth Mars Connection.................

I worked very closely with many, I will not name alll of the names. I will just tell you that point blank, Tricky Dick is for entertainment value only and should be viewed as such. His merit on talk shows is that he is entertaining, not factual, but entertaining to some to listen to. He is a money maker to keep the syndicates going, he fills in the spots and then there are some real speakers and then there are the fill ins to keep the show moving.

I have the original raw imagery of Mars and the "Face" I have most of all of the original findings and theories and mathematical and geometrical analyses as I was one of the people who worked it. However, back when we gave the presentation at the UN, "Tricky Dick" did the unthinkable and squatted on several people and their research and claimed it as his and then ripped off the video and cut deals behind backs and profitted while stealing from others. Since then 'THE MARS MISSION " had folded. What ever it is now, is not what it really was. He lost all of the good people as the good people got squatted on. Time moved on and more imagery came in and , well reality is folks, there is only what you want to believe is on Mars. It was fun to though when the research was in its youth.

Years go by and unless some one is an oldie and knows the history or has been deeply imvolved they will not understand what is going on in the present. You would need to know how books can be edited and rewritten and text wiped out and redone and images falsified to fit some one's theories and such. Well, I have the originals. I know what Tricky Dick is up to. I am not so nervouse to write this and someone running off to him and saying, " Hey , you know Colette? You know what she just said?" I really do not care. I am writing this for the people who are unaware of the history of the Face on Mars and how it failed. People should be coherent enough by now to realize that. But, as I say, unless you are familiar with the material and the history you will not know.

So I suggest for those of you who are truly interested go back to the first editions of The Monuments of Mars. Tricky Dick did make some errors, and then he did try to cover it up by rewriting the text and editing it out, but he blew it and left some titles on some graphics in the book. So if he ever really wanted to take me to court for slander, no can do, he would be incriminating himself. He would be laughed at and probably hung up by his thumbs so all could throw tomatoes at him. I am not proud to write this, I am telling the truth.

I do not want to get in a heated debate or discussion about Tricky Dick. I am very aware of who he is and yes he is very aware of who I am and what I know. So, I will not spill the beans any further. It would be interesting if anyone has the original copy of the UN presentation done in 92. I have a few and then the edited copies. I also have the early books, most of everything.

People can dream and the when reality hits and if it does not fit with their dream or theory, they still continue on with "so called research" as if they did not have that to hold on to, their image would be lost, and their ego shattered.

Once enough information comes in and one can be not biased about conspiracy and think everything is conspriacy, then you will begin to become educated. If you hold on to the sci-fi- aspect of that which is created by some to be held as truth, then you are not seeking the truth, you are spellbound into some one's cult and personal spychosis and you will feed the monster.

When the images came back, and the Face was not realy there, then peole had to say , it was a conspiacy instead of gracefully walking away and accepting they may be wrong.

I have researched many things in search of answers. When I have found the answers I have let it go and gone on to something else. If the answer was not what I really wanted to hear, I still had to face reality and move forward and on to something else.

I was impressed my this blog and went over to see what was being said. I have been watching the Deep Impact and saving all of the pictures I can and articles from online subscriptions I have with science and astronomy sites.

Please, for the sanity of the whole of humanity and if there is a collective conscience, then stop feeding into this hype about Tricky Dick and his glorified triump of beating NASA with the Enterprise Mission. Can't you see the mind of a child at work and the wannabe Star Trek Captain.

Well, I guess when one spends time in incarceration they can think of a whole bunch of things to keep their mind active. Has any one ever checked out the history of any of the authors?

It is now the year 2005, more than 15 years have gone by since the early beginnings of such nonsense. Some of us have matured and understood the research and pulled out after realization hit. Others have chosen to stay because they may fear they can not face reality.

It is like Crop Circles. I enjoyed studying them and there is a phenomenon there. But, reality is, most are made by humans. I can accept that. I also understand the mystery behind them as well.

I was there when the Avebury Connection and the Face was being configured. I have the originals. I worked closely with all of the other reserachers. I am an oldie. All I would like to say is I guess what I just said. I appreciate the frankness of this man's post.
He is in reality about this mumbo jumbo. Captain Tricky Dick is exactly that, a character in the alternative scene for people to read and conspire over and galk.

If you are really seeking truths, then when they are laid before your eyes, have your eyes open wide enough and perceive with discernment. Do not close your eyes because it is not what you have hoped for.

I have seen far too much of irrational behaviour of individuals whom seem to hold them selves in high esteem while they misguide the seekers who are looking for some answers.

I thank this man for this post. Maybe some of you people who have been following Tricky Dick may want to value truths and learn there is a far greater benevolent feeling in being true to yourself and others then being a false figure who feeds on of media attention.

I will not comment any further, nor follow this post. It is a dead issue. I thought I should speak up as I do have originals and the history. So with that , comes a reponsibility, like, " Well if you knew that, why didn't you tell us?" So, I am ......

Dr. Colette M. Dowell ND
Circular Times
Moving Forward Publications

28/7/05 8:54 PM  
IonTruO2 said...

What we are getting very close to, is the understanding of the means of "traveling without moving"-phrased in Dune.. Any one who has actually meditated, knows that conditional existence in the cosmic domain and the subsequent time/space experience is not essentially binding to us. We are already a multi-dimensional being. A seven layer cake of sorts. That's seven chakric layers...or so
We simply are narrowly aware, and "solidified" in our point of view of "tangible" existence. Yet, the kind of understanding that is dawning from sources like Richard Hoagland and revealers of other subject..matter:), is that distance and time are resolved in the "immediacy" of pure consciousness itself and "travel" does not equate. We all, are still playing in the gross dimension, but at the same time, we are almost ready for capability and capacity for the more subtle dimensions. Sorry , they are not realizable at all from our current struggle based, competitive, problematic ways of object oriented impulse.
So, knowledge will flow, the obscurers' and controllers will go. Methods beyond mere intellectualism and mind efforts, must develop more, in order to comprehend the much bigger picture. Mars and Lapitus are the hints of a far far greater existence going on that we are only just starting to get a glimmer of awareness of, from this narrow visible visual light experience.
"Hyperdimensional" could be ordinary.

28/7/05 9:32 PM  
Anonymous said...

I do. Her grammar and syntax is terrible. She is either old, drunk, a non-English speaker, or uneducated.

Who is Dr. Colette Dowell? What is her "dr." title referencing?

Also, who types in bold?

28/7/05 9:35 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Bill Thompson,


>I had some questions about NASA's work with the Shuttle's "foam upgrade" that perhaps you have been apprised of by your insider contacts. As I understand it, (and this is public release, so it may not be true) the original CFC foam that was used, what I shall refer to as Stickifoam(R), worked well and did NOT flake off.

>Our Government determined that Stickifoam caused ozone depletion, global warming, civil unrest, dogs to bark, children to cry, EPA pundits to run in tight circles mumbling "we're all gonna die," and who knows what else.

>NASA then switched to Crumblifoam(R), which had the unfortunate side effect of sloughing off at 5K MPH, causing the loss of the most complex piece of antique machinery ever created by man. After over 2 years and billions of taxpayer dollars, NASA comes up with Crumblifoam II(R)...which does exactly the same thing.

>Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but a few ideas come to mind. Do you know if these ideas had been bandied about and rejected for some reason...?

>1) Government agencies make exceptions for themselves all the time; it's de rigeur. Why didn't they make an agreement with the EPA to use Stickifoam, under controlled conditions, ONLY on the side of the ET that faces the Orbiter? It seems to be obvious that CFC foam is the only thing that'll work. Cutting the amount of CFCs by 50-60% seems a fair compromise with human lives and billion-dollar machines at stake.

>2) Protect the Orbiter's underside tiles! A spray-on, lightweight, low melting point "liner" would absorb the hits of any errant foam and/or ice, and would boil off early in the re-entry procedure, well before the tiles came to bear. (I'll leave the composition of said "liner" to the real rocket scientists.)

>Of course, the skeptic in me has to ask the question:

>3) What did NASA really spend those billions of dollars on? As a government agency, diverting funds and false accounting is also de rigeur. Perhaps the reformulation, the delays, and the scrutiny were all just another NASA smokescreen while the Shuttle sat idle.

>Any ideas on this will be eagerly appreciated. Thanks again for all you are doing for the cause of truth!

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have heard this story about "switching foams," but I haven't seen this specifically DOCUMENTED by any outside agencies (i.e. the New York Times, The Washington Post, the broasdcast or cable news networks, etc.). And, I don't remember this being referenced in the CAIB Report. (If anyone does have documentation for this important "foam" detail -- not just a "news story" -- I'd REALLY like to see it.

That Tank/foam problem notwithstanding, putting some kind of "protective coating" over the tiles may NOT be practical. Both in terms of weight, and/or chemistry. On the latter: having a layer of plastic film that "boils off" as the Shuttle reenters could cause serious interactions WITH the tiles, ultimately maybe defeating the heat-resistent purpose of the tiles themselves!

Personally, as I was discussing with one of our "inside sources" just last night, I'm beginning to think that putting the paint BACK on the External Tank (which, as I wrote, was removed almost 20 years ago to save a bit of weight!) could fix the entire problem!! Kinda like "watersealing" your deck ....

So, stay tuned .... :)

28/7/05 9:43 PM  
Anonymous said...

"NASA: We were wrong
to launch
Future missions suspended
due to foam-insulation danger"

Posted: July 27, 2005
10:35 p.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


What a tragic farce NASA has become.

How can any of you believe that we are on the verge of some kind of space travel renaissance with the current political scene dominated by a murdering, power-crazed president, with the current state of galloping moronism in the USA, with S.P.E.C.T.R.E. style drug cartels, and fascistic mulit-national corporations destroying democracy, etc., etc., etc.

Cheney might run for President. Can you beat that?
But considering that the last two elections were rigged.....

I will not post here again.
My purpose was to slap some of you happy face techies in your faces with the real facts of life.
Maybe with this crowd it wasn't necessary, and if so, I apologize, but I have run into an endless number of techies with their heads in the sand....

Space travel, nanotechnology, bio-tech, immortality, free-energy:
all headed for the dumpster of history, if the Peak Oil problem is as bad as it looks
or,
all to be in the hands of some kind of horrific American police state, with we Americans (Weans) playing the role of Number 6, and the Village inmates, from the old 1960s "Prisoner" series, metaphorically speaking.

Apes with suitcase nukes.
The equation;
killer apes plus microminaturized weapons of mass destruction equals extinction.

Where can I steal a Tardis?

Who am I? Who cares?
I'll give you hint. So what.

Nanobots; "I resigned from them"
Confess, Confess!

Bye, and hug the ones you care for.

28/7/05 9:47 PM  
IonTruO2 said...

More feeling, less fire is how we go higher.
Ego's will be washed and purified away.

28/7/05 9:50 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Fusion Knight,

>I don't want to intrude into your blogosphere by posting "commercials" ....

>I've set up a separate blog called "The Gallileo Proposal" (http://galileoproposal.blogspot.com) to discuss the the reality of a private space venture.

>If anybody is even remotely interested, please stop by and contribute. It's only when all the good folks of the world get together that anything good gets done.<

Not a "commecial" ... a "public service announcement." :)

Remember, I only got on Thomas' case after "the twentieth time!" :)

28/7/05 9:50 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Dan Perez,

>I don't know if any of you are watching NBC Nightly news right now but Brian Williams is doing the newscast while standing in front of the Shuttle Enterprise.<

Darn ... missed it [see my earlier "homage" to "Scotty" -- and the story of how we renamed "the Enterprise" ... over NASA's HUGE objections ... :) ].

28/7/05 9:58 PM  
Pachypodium Geayi said...

"So with that, comes a reponsibility, like, " Well if you knew that, why didn't you tell us?" So, I am ......"

I would like to commend Dr. Colette M. Dowell for letting her conscience be her guide in this matter and for taking such great pains to fulfill her `responsibilities' to her fellow human beings. In her Daily Grail posting, she has made a list of vitiating assertions against another researcher - `Tricky Dick' (and by this appellative I assume she is referring to Richard C. Hoagland).

So with that, comes a NEW responsibility, like, providing one jot of supporting evidence for her claims ......

Jiminy Cricket is waiting...

28/7/05 10:19 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Anonymous,

>Do you have any comments to make about this statement from Dr. Colette M. Dowell?<

Only ... that "someone's" obviously getting pretty desperate ....

All the original editions of "Monuments" (all FIVE of them ...), and the series of videos/DVDs which are the historical record of my official NASA, UN and university Briefings, are out there -- so folks can compare and make up their own minds. If there are some changes, it's because publishers revise later editions all the time, as newer material crowds out older, out-dated stuff. With "Monuments" I fought hard for this NOT to happen (to preserve EXACTLY the historical accuracy this writer seems to be claiming was deliberately edited out) ... and was mostly successful ... so eventually the 5th Edition expanded to almost 600 pages long!

Ultimately, my publisher said: "Enough! You've GOT to place the new material in a NEW book!!

Which is what we're doing now ....

Attempted character assassination is old hat in this business of watchdogging NASA: a sure sign that "someone's" increasingly worried ....

Hey, maybe this "blog" idea has real merit, you think?

28/7/05 10:27 PM  
Koby said...

>Hey, maybe this "blog" idea has real merit, you think? <

Blogs are talked about all the time on the "headline news"... I think you may have stumbled on something here.

Blogs keep people CONSTANTLY thinking and questioning and probing... unlike books and occasional website updates which bring ideas and discussions too infrequently.

Keep on keeping on, I say.

28/7/05 11:25 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Koby,

>Blogs are talked about all the time on the "headline news"... I think you may have stumbled on something here.

>Keep on keeping on, I say.<

But, it's SO damn time consuming!! Especially, if you do it RIGHT ....

28/7/05 11:38 PM  
Massimo IT said...

Mr. Hoagland,
it is like multitasking chess gaming, but ... it is so worth the effort
:D
I am Italian and I use to work in the Netherlands, so technically I am an European. what a great chance to have a live exchange with your US culture. And my feeling is still that despite the darker aspects of US approach in ruling the world, your Country was and still is (and will be for a long while) humanity's best hope. Trying on many paths, following different lines of thinking, this is what keeps a great Country YOUNG. And, it comes only from their people. That is the meaning of the beginning of all that, I think: " We, the People of the United States ...". Europe was united 2,000 years ago, but we have lost a common language since then, and it will take a long, long time to be back on track. Anyway, it is getting better, I guess.
And thanks for letting me look at those JPL pictures from the Mars surface from very different eyes, too. By the way, what happened to Keith Laney site? He was my guide to Mars over the last 5 years, and now he was like erased from the net. Black ops ...?

29/7/05 3:09 AM  
Brude said...

Sounds like this Colette woman doesn't believe in the scientific method? Is she saying that if new data comes along that supercedes old data we should cling like a pit bull to what we originally believed? I suppose even if it is clear some original ideas and theories were pointing us in the wrong direction we should stick to our guns come hell or high water.

29/7/05 4:10 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Massimo IT,

>I am Italian and I use to work in the Netherlands, so technically I am an European. what a great chance to have a live exchange with your US culture. And my feeling is still that despite the darker aspects of US approach in ruling the world, your Country was and still is (and will be for a long while) humanity's best hope. Trying on many paths, following different lines of thinking, this is what keeps a great Country YOUNG. And, it comes only from their people. That is the meaning of the beginning of all that, I think: " We, the People of the United States ...". Europe was united 2,000 years ago, but we have lost a common language since then, and it will take a long, long time to be back on track. Anyway, it is getting better, I guess.
And thanks for letting me look at those JPL pictures from the Mars surface from very different eyes, too. By the way, what happened to Keith Laney site? He was my guide to Mars over the last 5 years, and now he was like erased from the net. Black ops ...?<


I believe that too: because of our ability to still think and speak independently, and to affect our political destiny, we remain "the last best Hope of Mankind" (as Lincoln once called us ...)

But, only if we ACT!!

On Keith: he'll be back on the web soon with his own site again. He's waiting to reclaim his site domain -- which fell prey to an unscrupulous capitolist! :)

And, he's still in the Enterprise Conference -- with his incredible imaging skills and posts (including images) ....

http://www.enterprisemission.com/conference.html

29/7/05 5:27 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Sorry to change the subject a little, but ... this may be interesting to evertbody: water on Mars (from Mars Express. Not that JPL guys didn't see it before, did they?).
I am just waiting for that Mars Recon Mission to come soon ... and much more juicy things to watch up there.
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMGKA808BE_1.html#subhead2

29/7/05 6:00 AM  
thomas said...

I think it was after the 21st time Rich...Bless You

Dr Dowell: "most crop circles are made by humans".....and the others?...Sex-crazed hedgehogs was the first explanation put forward...then I think they dragged out two guys named Dan & Dave...


'Happy feet' did this?

http://www.lovely.clara.net/history.html

http://www.the-arcturians.com/new2005/eng/index.htm

re: the crop history link,note the incredible increase in numbers,size & complexity since 1990...the same year the First Contact fleet arrived ....

You're right...it's just more desperation from a cabal mouthpiece...

***
I thought 'Tricky Dick' was Nixon's claim....she's not even original...

Keep throwing those Thunderbolts Richard...

a 'New Reality' soon..........

Best Regards Always...

29/7/05 6:07 AM  
bdatriangle said...

With no new launch system in the near future, where does that leave the space program. It seems to me that it has been purposely "run in to the ground"

All that is left is to buy into the chinese space program. (based on the tried but true USSR technology) We seem to be selling out every thing else to them, why not space too.

29/7/05 6:18 AM  
Sean Cotoz said...

Dr. Colette Dowell's letter really made herself look more silly than her attempt to make Richard look silly.

Richard has covered a tremendous amount of issues beyond 'the face', and has observed and brought up a great amount of issues which need to be exposed and most importantly... need to be resolved. I consider this an act of human cultural responsibility, not delinquency.

If data observed sways to one theory or model, that doesn't imply the visionary of that model is claiming their model is absolute. The important thing is to have ALL data released and open to the public, so the data can either prove or disprove a model. Richard has stated this numerous times. Also important is to apply other testing methods which can reveal further data examination; something that Richard has constantly been demanding.

Richard is not sticking to his guns on 'the face' theory; he has openly urged NASA to 'zoom in' on Cydonia (not just via photography, but and with other testing methods) to either prove or disprove once-and-for-all what those objects on Mars are or are not.

If Richard wants to claim a theory and never wants to have that theory debated or critiqued, Richard would remain absent from the public media. He would hide, so as to avoid or prevent being challenged. Richard clearly isn't hiding. And has been and is willing to continue to face the fires of criticism.

When a model is developed, and no other data is forthcoming which can disprove that model, that model can still remain as a possibility. But nowhere does it imply sticking to one's guns.

Even if he was unable to bend from his Face theory, how does this differ from the VAST scientific community - made up of millions of individuals - who also are sluggish to bend from their own theories about the world and universe around us? After all, a man named Royal Rife in the 1940's successfully cured 100% of the terminally ill cancer patients presented to him. Yet, although this astounding event took place, the medical community over the last 70 years - a community made up of millions of scientists and professionals - still refuse to bend towards this man's model of cancer development and complete and effective cancer (and other disease) elimination. 70 years of unbendable science by so-called professionals, and hundreds of millions of cancer deaths around the world allowed to continue. Now that is pure cultural delinquency in my opinion and on the cusp of criminal abetting.

Regarding her claim that Richard is more-or-less only trying to sell products... well after listening to 8 or so years of radio shows he has appeared on, and most shows being 3 to 4 hours in length, there is very little prominence put on pitching his products. So little prominence in fact, many newbie's to his work often don't realize there are product materials Richard has published and that is available for purchase.

Also, the EnterpriseMission.com website contains a VAST amount of free articles, most of them written in great detail. Hundreds of pages literally if you were to churn them out on your printer. Combine that with all the images he has supplemented with his articles, I guarantee you'll be replacing your printer cartridges once or twice. All this free information is actually extremely rare looking at most other researchers' websites. The release of this high volume of free material, which he could have easily charged people for, is reflective of someone who trying to help society and help inform people, not peddle products.

If Richard was a marketing genius, thus only focused on selling his wares, by him offering hundreds of ongoing pages full of free and accessible information - as the result of hundreds of hours of research and writing - well he is running his marketing strategy all backwards... working way too many hours, and giving people too much free stuff to read, in an attempt to sell a few books or DVDs. Observation clearly reveals he is not focused on selling his tangible goods.

Also, in my opinion, I see absolutely nothing wrong with a researcher having products to sell. Research is incredibly time-consuming and requires a tremendous amount of financial resources. Sales from products rarely cover this cost, but at least helps supplement it. Since social, govt, or educational grants (made up of tax-payers' dollars) are rarely directed to this type of research... I see nothing wrong with these researchers having something to sell. And I see something VERY wrong that these researchers have to struggle so much financially when I observe that some groups out there receive millions of dollars in research grants which is often used to perpetuate ongoing cultural stagnation or even harm as in the Rife cancer cure example above.

The fact that Dr. Dowell can only use the name "Tricky Dicky" instead of the name "Richard Hoagland" reveals her lack of professionalism. It actually makes herself look childish, instead of presenting an intelligent critical review of Richard's work using his real name. By not mentioning his real name once, but instead using "Tricky Dicky" nine times, obviously is reflective of a slander attempt against Richard. And she has a Doctor title?

I have noticed that those in the mainstream cannot get over 'the face' issue. Richard has covered so many other issues since and beyond that. And if a so-called professional cannot acknowledge that, well then her own powers of observation are minimal or flawed.

Her focus on possible character quirks of Richard serves no purpose in my opinion other than trying to slander him more. I personally do not know any person who doesn't have personality quirks, who has made errors, or whatever. If Richard has any shortcomings, like we all do, I hope these things are never the focus away from a person's hard-work and positive offerings to society. In the same manner, although I feel Dr. Dowell's letter or statement is rather childish, I too wouldn't focus on this personality quirk in her and would still respect whatever professional work she is involved in.

When you observe and have been involved in the 'alternative' community like I have been, you frequently (and predictably) find that criticism towards a researcher is often focused on their personality (aka hidden motives), rather than their theories. Or should I say, those who fear the potential of the theories (or who will be most hurt by these theories) will tend to only focus on petty personality quirks. This is because they are trying to sway the public to think that the researcher is emotionally, intellectually, and ethically flawed, and thus therefore their theories are also flawed. But in most cases, it boils down to childish name calling rather than professional peer critical review. I would expect the later from Dr. Dowell, not the former.

All I can sum up about her is that if she feels Richard is off the mark, loopy, and nonsensical... I challenge her to debate in a public media setting each and every issue, theory, and model of Richard's. And even debate all his so-called ethical shortcomings if this is what she wants to focus on. In fact, let Richard stand alone and debate these issues against a full team of Doctors and professionals. She might find that he can easily stand his ground. Which is revealing in itself! In fact, is she is truly concerned that we are all being conned by Richard, she should debate him openly in public to once and for all expose his so-called fraudulentness to the world.

If I had the time or desire, I could comment on literally each and every sentence that she wrote. But this would possibly result in her looking even more silly.

Sean Cotoz
DAG Director
www.directactiongroup.com

29/7/05 7:15 AM  
Anonymous said...

Richard:

With the new spotlight on the Shuttle mission please don't let up on the Comet Temple story. It too deserves intense and sustained scutiny.

Your blogs are wonderful. Aim high!

29/7/05 7:24 AM  
PIF said...

On Chinese space tech - actually it's a mix of Russian, US and indigenous. The Russian was bought and the US stolen or given in return for political contributions. The US threw in a klystron switch as a bonus (the once super eyes-only code-word secret trigger for H-bombs). All this is part of the Chinese the Super 863 Program - aimed at acquiring all the world's technology, from every source, by all means possible, then shutting down all other sources. An example is the once booming rare-earth mining industry in the US, home of the largest known deposits - shut down by 'environmental' lawsuits and converted into a park. Now the only source for rare-earths is China. In short, China now controls the only major source of modern sintered NdFeB magnets. The Program is aimed at doing the same thing with space tech and access.

29/7/05 7:34 AM  
IonTruO2 said...

If Richard's intentions are not pure and his ego is self fulfilling, he will suffer his own natural karmic consequences. I assure you, it happens a lot faster these days. How interesting that a bunch of people typing comments into this notable blog, have an effect, a leverage of sorts over others', whose posture is oppositional! I find it humourous that these various characters that simple go for the "shoot-down" from a smug holyer than though mentality, seem to think the stream of considerations on this blog are coming from adolescent ignorants', fooled by a simple story or "opinion". Rather than this blog simply being a pissing party against NASA, I have been pleasantly suprised and impressed by the flow of topics and feelings and even creative bla bla. So good Richard, stay true and stay the course. Let's not get lost in the inviting mechanism that is "only" struggle.

29/7/05 7:39 AM  
IonTruO2 said...

Just read Sean Cotoz comment: Very well said! My sentiments as well!

29/7/05 7:47 AM  
SunKing said...

I concur with Sean and "well said" to you, too, Iontruo2!

29/7/05 8:48 AM  
PIF said...

Ice lake found on the Red Planet
A disc of water ice in a Martian crater, ESA

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4727847.stm

A giant patch of frozen water has been pictured nestled within an unnamed impact crater on Mars. The photographs were taken by the High Resolution Stereo Camera on board Mars Express, the European Space Agency probe which is exploring the planet. The ice disc is located on Vastitas Borealis, a broad plain that covers much of Mars' far northern latitudes... The highly visible ice is sitting in a crater which is 35 km (23 miles) wide, with a maximum depth of about two km (1.2 miles). Scientists believe the water ice is present all year round because the temperature and pressure are not sufficient to allow it to change states. Researchers studying the images are sure it is not frozen carbon dioxide (CO2), because CO2 ice had already disappeared from the north polar cap at the time the image was taken. The team have also been able to detect faint traces of water ice along the rim of the crater and on the crater walls.

29/7/05 9:00 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Good morning...

Noticed a few coincidences this morning... (again)

I reported a spot at the side of the sun, around July 20th 2005 and blogged it here:

http://strange-spot-next-to-sun-18th-july-05.blogspot.com/

Now space weather.com

http://www.spaceweather.com/

Have another version of a similar story only there's is the space station in a T Shape with the Shuttle alongside...

A coincidence?

Also

BBC News (UK) is running a story about a distant object found 'orbiting the sun'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4726733.stm

Then NASA;

They have found a frozen lake on Mars, *Raising the possibility of life on Mars*

Quote:

Highly visible

The highly visible ice is sitting in a crater which is 35 km (23 miles) wide, with a maximum depth of about two km (1.2 miles).

Highly visible?

Why aren't all these highly visible pictures available, even the ones without ice in them?

Can we have the highly visible lander pictures too please NASA?

Spirit and all the other landers that landed on Mars...

After seeing Richard C. Hoaglands spirit pictures, they again raise fascinating questions, so many artefacts and regular geometric technical looking shapes, strewn around the Martian desert.

And now they've found a lake.

Are they prepping us slowly for the ultimate revelation?

There *WAS* life on Mars?

Was the path of the comet temple 1, (Earth and Mars every 5.5 years) anything to do with the demise of the life on Mars?

Just questions this AM...

If you get time to check it, again raising questions...

Like, coincidence?

1. Space weather, spot next to sun
2. BBC distant object from sun.
3. NASA frozen lake on Mars.

July 29th 2005

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 9:00 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Richard, I just wanted to add something to this:

"Richard,

Do you have any comments to make about this statement from Dr. Colette M. Dowell?

Well, I do not know how to say this with out sounding a bit harsh , but I will try. I am one of the oldies in the space world. I knew Tricky Dick very well. I worked closely with him from 1988/9 to 1992 , which was the date of the United Nations presentation given in New York City to the paraspychology department about the Face on Mars, the Crop Cirlces, Carl Munck's Code and John Anthony West and on and on. Oh yes, David Percy and the Avebury/ Silbury Earth Mars Connection.................
"

Any link with NASA and the UNITED NATIONS should be examined more than closely...

This is the news story relating to the A of C again...

But I just want to re-emphasise in case it wasn't clear...

THE UN has a *REPLICA* Ark of the Covenant!

Incredibly the Ark of the Covenant has a pretender.

With the blessings of the United Nations, a bizarre ark knock-off, carried through Vermont farm fields and sailed by sloop to UN Manhattan headquarters, has been making the rounds as a show-and-tell exercise at public schools. Called the Ark of Hope, the replica carries, among other things, the Earth Charter, a replacement for the Ten Commandments as advocated by former Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev and Kofi Annan right hand man, Maurice Strong.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover062905.htm

If the United Nations has a *replica* Ark of the Covenant, and they are already displaying this as a charter to the earth.

Then what religion is the UN prodominantly?

Or alternatively...

Is the UN treating the A of the C as a Joke?

I ask that too, because at the end of June begining of July. Two helicopters crashed near the UN on the East river, within a week of each other.

The tails of the helicopters were broken off (see the pictures) part of the crash or not, interesting to note, Rev 9:7 that says and they have stings in their tails...

Another reason I and ask all these highly charged and loaded questions is because, NASA's science could be lead or tainted by religious influence, or doctrine to protect people or peoples from harm.

Harm in the form, of outcry as the truth about the scientific discoveries are revealed to the public.

Thus exposing science, religion mankind, all of us, to the knowledge;

...that we are not alone in one ultimate, release of the first pictures of the spectragraph data from Temple 1...

...or shall we call the next phase...

First Contact?

oh they already did ;)

J aka 'Brian'

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover062905.htm

29/7/05 9:19 AM  
SunKing said...

New World may be double Pluto's size!

http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn7751

29/7/05 9:30 AM  
SunKing said...

This is the same object linked by Jasgrave333 above. Thin link has a gif showing the movement of the object.

29/7/05 9:38 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

"the medical community over the last 70 years - a community made up of millions of scientists and professionals - still refuse to bend towards this man's model of cancer development and complete and effective cancer (and other disease) elimination. 70 years of unbendable science by so-called professionals, and hundreds of millions of cancer deaths around the world allowed to continue. Now that is pure cultural delinquency in my opinion and on the cusp of criminal abetting."

Whilst in the blogging mood; this quote hold so much water.

"the cusp of criminal abetting."

With NASA they are more than on the cusp, there is outright self damming evidence, that they are not disclosing data and information.

So many lives lost and probably preventable...

I'm wondering where a good investigation into Space and military funding would turn up.

Trillions of Dollar'$ spent on black book projects, funding we dont know what.

However the lives of Seven crew members are forced to use a shuttle with second hand parts and faulty insulation.

What is that about?

Why are the lives of Seven Crew LESS important than funding a project that we cannot see?

What is more important in those other *SECRET* projects?

Ranting questions...

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 9:39 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Richard, keep up the fantastic work.

TEM is gaining hold with solid questions that require answers, no doubt we will soon have an answer - Temple 1...

"If Richard was a marketing genius, thus only focused on selling his wares, by him offering hundreds of ongoing pages full of free and accessible information - as the result of hundreds of hours of research and writing - well he is running his marketing strategy all backwards... working way too many hours, and giving people too much free stuff to read, in an attempt to sell a few books or DVDs. Observation clearly reveals he is not focused on selling his tangible goods."

Yep knowledge, science, data, pictures all of the *FACTUAL* information about our Universe, earth and other phenomena, should be given to all of us living in this Universe...

To remake a point, we are all alive on this planet, we should be entitled to know *EVERYTHING* about it.

Without knowledge our Freedom of speach will become *freedumb* of speach...

Excellent Blog...

29/7/05 9:52 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

"Sean Cotoz said... And she has a Doctor title?"

Titles of officials seem to give the impression that the title bearer has been blessed with a better mind than you or me.

Submitting myself to become a Jehovah's witness, I was enouraged to dedicate all my time to becoming or reaching out for the 'position' of 'Elder'.

In my lifetime spent as a Jehovah's witness, I have witness more first hand corruption and scandals on the part of these 'elders' than I care to mention.

An obvious point to state but not all are bad and not all are good.

Still, to not use Richards C. Hoaglands respectful name, is a serious flaw in any 'official' address from a 'Professional'.

No matter how much corruption I witnessed as a publisher (Jehovah's Witness baptised, no rank :)) would not allow me to be disrepectful to them.

This Dr, should immediately apologise for the lack of respect for Richards endevour to obtain the TRUTH!

Keep up the work Richard.

29/7/05 9:59 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

...and...

"All I can sum up about her is that if she feels Richard is off the mark, loopy, and nonsensical... I challenge her to debate in a public media setting each and every issue, theory, and model of Richard's. And even debate all his so-called ethical shortcomings if this is what she wants to focus on. In fact, let Richard stand alone and debate these issues against a full team of Doctors and professionals. She might find that he can easily stand his ground. Which is revealing in itself! In fact, is she is truly concerned that we are all being conned by Richard, she should debate him openly in public to once and for all expose his so-called fraudulentness to the world. "

Right on!!!

Lets get the NASA Science team online and ask all these 'awkward' questions...

We know they are still not going to tell the truth, but it would be fun to hear them trying to 'spin' or create stories at a moments notice?

I wonder if they are that good?

For instance, stammering or looking up to the right is a sign of lying or creating thoughts...

hmmm

And the NASA Temple 1 mission...

NASA bring with you *THE* spetrograph reading to the conference too please...

...I asked nicely...

...that doesn't seem to work either though...

Just ranting...

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 10:16 AM  
brian c said...

jasgrave333 said...
"They have found a frozen lake on Mars, *Raising the possibility of life on Mars*
The highly visible ice is sitting in a crater which is 35 km (23 miles) wide, with a maximum depth of about two km (1.2 miles).
Highly visible?
Why aren't all these highly visible pictures available...?"


Here's an article with a nice shot of the ice crater:

http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/physik_astronomie/bericht-47200.html

29/7/05 10:17 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Brian C,

an almost belated thanks... :)

You didn't happen to discover the missing spirit lander pictures or the temple one spectrograph reading did you?

Yep, I have all the ice water crater pictures I can handle, well I have two now...

...Where are the rest, anyone? NASA???

yep One picture of a high resolution image of Ice in a crater, dripped out from NASA analysis, has all the markings of prepping us...

I wonder whats next...

Temple 1, holds key to life?

Richard, can you release a text version of your coast to coast show?

And do you have a set date to reveal the temple 1 update?

Looking forward and staying tuned

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 10:32 AM  
Anonymous said...

Here is the link to the very high-res photos of the ice:

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMGKA808BE_1.html

29/7/05 10:39 AM  
Fusion Knight said...

BDATriangle said...

"All that is left is to buy into the chinese space program. (based on the tried but true USSR technology) We seem to be selling out every thing else to them, why not space too."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, why don't we buy into OURSELVES??!! There's no reason this needs to be left to governments. Let US do it, NOW!

I've been posting ideas and thoughts over at galileoproposal.blogspot.com. Come on over, and leave some comments, give some feedback, and join the team.

29/7/05 10:48 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

"Anonymous said...
Here is the link to the very high-res photos of the ice:

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMGKA808BE_1.html

29/7/05 10:39 AM "

Thanks Anonymous...

Pretty pictures for true...

Now the spirit lander pictures...

And the temple 1 spectro graph

anyone?

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 11:05 AM  
Koby said...

>"the medical community over the last 70 years - a community made up of millions of scientists and professionals - still refuse to bend towards this man's model of cancer development and complete and effective cancer (and other disease) elimination. 70 years of unbendable science by so-called professionals, and hundreds of millions of cancer deaths around the world allowed to continue. Now that is pure cultural delinquency in my opinion and on the cusp of criminal abetting."<

>Whilst in the blogging mood; this quote hold so much water.<

>"the cusp of criminal abetting."<

>With NASA they are more than on the cusp, there is outright self damming evidence, that they are not disclosing data and information. <

>So many lives lost and probably preventable...<

>I'm wondering where a good investigation into Space and military funding would turn up.<

>Trillions of Dollar'$ spent on black book projects, funding we dont know what. <

>However the lives of Seven crew members are forced to use a shuttle with second hand parts and faulty insulation. <

>What is that about?<

>Why are the lives of Seven Crew LESS important than funding a project that we cannot see?<

>What is more important in those other *SECRET* projects?<

>Ranting questions...<

Simple answer to all your questions...

MONEY and the control of it.

Speaking of cancer/medical... when was the last time a corporation offered a CURE for something, anything?

It is MUCH more profitable to treat something repeatedly then to get rid of (CURE) the problem altogether.

This same mentality applies to just about everything.

It's a CONSUMEr based economy... life and death for the most part are, sadly, insignificant.

This reminds me of a quote from Dave Barry....
"In the short term, I think humanity will continue to suffer from wars, oppression, and natural disasters. This is also what I expect for the long term, but I'm hoping cell-phone reception will improve"

Unfortunately, I beleive that defines the stereo-typical American.

29/7/05 11:06 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

" Fusion Knight said...
BDATriangle said...

"All that is left is to buy into the chinese space program. (based on the tried but true USSR technology) We seem to be selling out every thing else to them, why not space too."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, why don't we buy into OURSELVES??!! There's no reason this needs to be left to governments. Let US do it, NOW!

I've been posting ideas and thoughts over at galileoproposal.blogspot.com. Come on over, and leave some comments, give some feedback, and join the team.

29/7/05 10:48 AM"

FK, you have a good and eager point. We could do it ourselves, however a lot of work has been completed already.

Before I go off and spend all my meager salary on flying to Mars...

I'd like to see the pictures of what's already up there, I mean the real, unedited, un-tampered with images...

also...

The People of the USA have invested Trillion$ of Tax Dollar$ into these projects, run by Goverment officials 'representing the people'.

Shouldn't this data, already paid for and researched, be available?

I mean after all USA citizens paid for it...

Do USA citizens have no say?

Just questions...

But yep, if a movement gets started to push NASA to disclose all the pictures of *ALL* the missions, I'm willing to more than donate.

A legal battle would be costly and lengthy, but in the end would render results?

I would donate to a good legal body, willing to bring NASA to heal over the non disclosure of what should be *PUBLIC* data...

Still I'm remaking my point to many times...

If anyone things I'm ranting to much, just let me know ;)

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 11:12 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Now this made me think real real good point:

"Simple answer to all your questions...

MONEY and the control of it.

Speaking of cancer/medical... when was the last time a corporation offered a CURE for something, anything?

It is MUCH more profitable to treat something repeatedly then to get rid of (CURE) the problem altogether.

This same mentality applies to just about everything.

It's a CONSUMEr based economy... life and death for the most part are, sadly, insignificant."

Yep controlling the disease is far more profitable, than curing people.

Where is there money in people being cured?

Where is there money in people having light bulbs that never wear out?

Where is the morality???

Greed+Money is destroying us...

When the 'Stereo-typical' American see that?

The strange weather we are experiencing right now for instance, is more than a sign that our natural environment is in trouble.

I was shocked to read this morning that a Tornado of 130MPH, destroyed many houses, and damaged hundreds of properties...

Where was this Tornado???

In Birmingham UK, the same place that the Terrorist bombers are being arrested from...

Wierd and more than a strange coincidence...

...I've never heard of such a big or destructive anything like that in England, I lived there till two and bit years ago...

Quote from the BBC News site:

Houses hit by a tornado in Birmingham might have to be knocked down because they are so badly damaged

"We have an average of 33 reports of tornadoes in the UK each year but these are especially rare in built-up areas and there has not been one of this strength in many years," said a Met Office spokesperson.

"City centres are not the natural habitat of a tornado; the tall buildings would normally stop their formation."

This scale of destruction is generally unheard of in the usual sleepy weather of England...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4726643.stm

Didn't Jesus say, when you see the storm clouds from far, you know that bad weather is coming...

We can see the signs, but not many people are putting on their coats and taking shelter...

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 11:21 AM  
Fusion Knight said...

Brian,

I totally agree with you that we paid a ton of money for NASA to run experiments for us, and we deserve to have access to all the data that's been collected.

I'm just getting sick of waiting, and with the current state of the shuttle fleet, ISS, etc. I'm not confident that NASA can do what it's meant to do anymore.

By all means continue pursuing disclosure! We NEED to fight that front. But let's get off the proverbial couch and start doing something for ourselves. We know NASA lies, fibs, cheats, and steals. So while we try and get what we want out of them, let's build up something to replace them.

29/7/05 11:26 AM  
MindTrigger said...

I do that by supporting organizations such as X-Prize (http://www.xprizefoundation.com/) It's too bad we don't have any control over our tax money going to NASA. I would prefer it went elsewhere.

29/7/05 11:38 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

FK, reasoning on this, spending money on two fronts would weaken the point of both.

"We know NASA lies, fibs, cheats, and steals. So while we try and get what we want out of them, let's build up something to replace them."

By spending money one point, i.e. exposing the NASA data and facts/pictures/UFO/ET/anything that is TRUE, we could actually receive a government sponsored project of our own?

Spending money on a legal battle is costly and lengthy and so is building a Mars explorer is probably going to take longer between us and a few good techies.

Why dont we all expose NASA using the legal method, if there are any dark lurking ships or space craft, that weren't disclosed to the public, why not use those to explore instead?

You see my point?

It would all be lengthy no matter what...

However by bringing NASA to task and forcing them to deliver all the data to us, we could well find an abundance of data, that it would take us almost as long to catch up with it, than we did learning to believe that Comets were icy snowballs...

Just thinking... any thoughts on that?

J aka 'Brian'

PS as I said before, the old ancient dust book though, states that all the secrets of the earth and the works in them will be exposed at the great day of Armageddon...

Rev 16:16 (only time Armageddon is used in Bible)
1+6=7... 7:7 7/7

7/7 Four(five) suicide bombers in England...

"I'm not the doom bringer, I'm the doom bringers son, I'm just here prophesying doom, till the doom bringer comes."

29/7/05 11:39 AM  
Chops said...

Is that "commentary" from DumbellDowell...supposed to be serious? The wild illogic with which she seeks to impress folks about the "foolery" of RCH, is a perfect example of how human beings in positions of "authority", or with a "title" (in this case, "Doctor"), have traditionally tried to manipulate the public.
Even a casual dissection of her statements wull show that she is really everything that she claims Richard Hoagland to be....
....SHE is the actual "Tricky Dick"!! She makes a FOOL of herself here!
Since she can't discredit any of RCH's theories through scientific debate, she aims to discredit the man - and without the professionalism to even mention his NAME! How LAME! Even if you toss aside the majority of Richard's interpretations, the DATA speaks for itself. Her exclamations about being shown the real info is laughable! Has NASA shown us the objects in the SPIRIT rover landing area? It was Richard who, on Coast, faithfully chronicled the possible sabotage as the SPIRIT went 'dark'. - Just in time to avoid answering ANY questions about the debris in the photos. And how Richard predicted on that same show, while speaking to George Noory's question, that the SPIRIT would be OK. That it was just a "shot across the bow", to let someone know who was REALLY in charge of that mission. Sure enough, a day or so before SPIRIT revived, it was announced that SPIRIT's 1st mission (remember, had not even left the lander at this point)was to IMMEDIATELY "head for the hills", and neatly avoid any analysis of "rocks" to take place at the landing site. Where was the press? Why was RCH the only person publicly speculating on the merit of NASA's explanation - that that "flash memory" was full?
Where was Dr. Dowell when the CRINOID fossil candidate was photographed and subseqently DESTROYED by the RAT (Rock Abrasion Tool),in an amazing "Before and After" shot displayed on JPL's own web-site?!!! Why did Space.com launch a deliberate slander campaign and hit-piece against Richard's credentials that very same week, without ever showing the photos in question? (All this, while Steven Squires was telling the press that IF we were going to find any fossils, this is where we would look!) This is all documented on TEM website.

As for the objective reality of the information that RCH presents to us, the following was the kicker for me:
A few years ago, TEM posted "enhancements" of the anamolies located at the PATHFINDER mission landing site. These "intact" objects included a Giza-like "SPHINX" (near the Twin-Peaks), a large wall-like structure, a large tool-like implement, and something resembling a tank with a mechanical device standing in front of it. Although I had been following RCH for a few years already, I had a brief yet intense moment of disbelief..."This has really gone too far now"! The thought occured to me that, against all reason, maybe Richard was manipulating their enhancements. Then I remembered that I still had my original (1997) National Geographic issue, featuring 3-D centerfold photographs (complete with glasses)of the complete Pathfinder landing site. I cross-checked all of Richard's enhancements with the 3-D versions and sure enough, everything that Richard posted was clearly THERE!!!

Richard Hoagland has focused our attention on so much REAL data, that he would have no reason to risk losing credibilty by faking ANYTHING. INFACT, he has repeatedly resisted the temptation to reveal new conclusions and/or theroies, until he can properly substantiate the foundation upon which they are built.
As someone else posted - the vast amount of FREE information available on his website, stands as testimony to the philosphy that scientific discoveries should be accessable to ALL!
To me, the man is a SANE and professional research scientist in a society which has lost its collective way. If RCH had a P.H.D., would that somehow affect the objective results of his work? ("Dr.Hoagland, I presume...???!!!)

Take THAT - "Doctor" Dowell!!!!!!(and please DON'T return until you have something intelligent to say...)

29/7/05 11:49 AM  
Fusion Knight said...

Brian,

I'm NOT saying we create another NASA run by the government. I'm suggesting that we plan, design, fund, run, our OWN PUBLIC organization.

Let's face the facts. We can lobby NASA to start being nice and give us what we paid for. But what are the chances that an organization that falls under the influence of the DOD is going to be forthcoming about anything? Go ahead, try, but I don't expect much.

29/7/05 11:50 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

FK, heard u, I agree to the part that we could setup a new Public Space exploration project.

MindTrigger said...
I do that by supporting organizations such as X-Prize (http://www.xprizefoundation.com/) It's too bad we don't have any control over our tax money going to NASA. I would prefer it went elsewhere.

29/7/05 11:38 AM

Mind trigger has a point though...

FK, your tax dollars are supposedly already going into a *PUBLIC* space program.

It's funded by TAX dollars.

The projects and pictures of planets off earth, are the possession ultimately of the people of the universe...

i.e. EVERYONE...

Not just a few elite 'scared and running' scientists, trying to protect pensions and large SUV's.

We the public and earth dwelling people. Would desire and like the pictures of space and exploration that are around our home environment of earth (Earth 1).

Yep FK, if it becomes completely obvious that no amount of legal battle wins the data.

The only other option is to fund or start another agency...

However the current agency, has supposedly Trillions of public Tax payers money invested into exploring space...

EXPLORING Space...

So as explorers (the public) why aren't we given access to all the data...

Or is EVERYONE on this planet a passive passenger of the craft 'Earth 1'?

The happenings in the Universe ultimately affect EVERYONE...

Why isn't EVERYONE able to see pictures of other planets that are just out of our current technology to see from earth...

Yep, two fronts

Legal battle with NASA to disclose EVERYTHING!

Build own Space agency...

My own choice, I still use a dinner knife as a screwdriver...

I couldn't imagine myself building a space ship, well at least not yet...

FK, lead the way...

I'd also like to hear from anyone wanting to start a legal enquiry into NASA and the lack of credible images and data coming forth...

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 12:01 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Brian said...

"My own choice, I still use a dinner knife as a screwdriver...

I couldn't imagine myself building a space ship, well at least not yet..."

Dude! You're exactly the kind of person that SHOULD be building spaceships! Why not use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver? It works for both functions, doesn't it?

Take the example of the US vs. Russian space programs. NASA spent who knows how much money developing a ball point pen that would write in a zero-gravity environment. Know what the Russians did? They used a pencil... Any wonder Mir stayed in service for 20 some years, and skylab fell into the ocean?

29/7/05 12:06 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

FK, LOL, bro, this reminds of a story:

"Dude! You're exactly the kind of person that SHOULD be building spaceships! Why not use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver? It works for both functions, doesn't it?"

I dont know whether this is true, so please Richard, anybody correct me...

NASA or design team were trying to make a writing pen, for the Crew to use in space...

They put hours of research into what is finally known as the space pen, that cute little silver pen that can write upside down...

Presenting this to the Russian Space crew with remarkable pride, the Russian Space agency simply stated "we use pencils"

Larfed my ass off...

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 12:10 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

dam same story, should read all of your quote next time...

LOL

J aka tired and going home from work 'Brian'

Checking in later...

and it was true then :))

29/7/05 12:11 PM  
Brian said...

I asked NASA when they would be releasing the data from Deep Impact. This was their reply:

"The science team will be presenting their results at scientific meetings in August and
September of this year.

The schedule for release of all raw and calibrated data from all Deep Impact instruments is
February, 2006. It will be submitted to the Planetary Data System in archival format, which
includes documentation of the data. It is then available to the scientific community and the
public through the Planetary Data System.

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth Warner
warnerem@astro.umd.edu "

29/7/05 12:22 PM  
TempleMaster333 said...

Richard,
It has been so long that I forgot that i was desperately seeking to contact you concerning an early image of Vallis Marineris taken by the Mars Express Orbiter. I apologize for not being able to get more precise coordinates and a more scientific description, but I believe that I have spotted a large square platform with a huge "X" through the middle of it almost smack in the middle of Vallis Marineris. As a matter of fact, my first impressions of it were either as a launch platform or a huge Martian baseball diamond (!) The link to the image is below. When it first comes up, pay attention to the upper right hand quadrant. Towards the left side of that quadrant you will notice a fairly large semi-triangular shaped plateau. To the right of that across a small valley or tributary channal is a smaller, skinnier needle-shaped plateau. It is on a group of small hills immediately above an imaginary line connecting the centers of the plateaus, in the middle of the intervening valley, on the side of a hill that the platform is located. I start to see it well at 100% magnification in my window. The neat thing about this particular image is that it consists of an overhead view with a 3d low angle view directly below it. YOU CAN SEE THE PLATFORM IN BOTH VIEWS! I have showed this to somebody in our astronomy department and they actually asked me if it was a fake ! Please check this out with your extensive image processing resources! Be sure to choose the hi res 17.6 Meg tiff file.

http://www.esa.int/externals/images/esa-MediaReleaseHRSC_FINAL.tif

29/7/05 1:04 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Here's another way to look at it... If the GOVERNMENT can get people to the moon, how much safter, better, cheaper, faster, could the private sector get people to the moon?

29/7/05 1:39 PM  
Dave said...

>Scientists believe the water ice is present all year round because the temperature and pressure are not sufficient to allow it to change states.>

Check this out...

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2004/077/mars-polar-flooding.htm

29/7/05 1:50 PM  
Dave said...

Warning, short but OFF TOPIC post below...

>For instance, stammering or looking up to the right is a sign of lying or creating thoughts...<

This reminded me of something I'd like to mention.
With the Rove/Plame/Niger Uranium scandal in the news, they've been replaying the audio clip of Bush's statement during the State of the Union address about "We know Saddam has attempted to aquire Yellow Cake..."

Now, *IF* you've been paying attention to the story at all, you know he was deliberately and very conciously lying when he said that.
But, the interesting thing is you can almost spot it in the very breathy and throat-strangled way he was speaking. Listen to it again and see if you agree.

29/7/05 2:09 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

Wow it's raining here today, they say another tropical depression (number 8?) is forming above the lesser antilles (us here in St Kitt's) today...

"Brian said...
I asked NASA when they would be releasing the data from Deep Impact. This was their reply:

"The science team will be presenting their results at scientific meetings in August and
September of this year.

The schedule for release of all raw and calibrated data from all Deep Impact instruments is
February, 2006. It will be submitted to the Planetary Data System in archival format, which
includes documentation of the data. It is then available to the scientific community and the
public through the Planetary Data System.

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth Warner
warnerem@astro.umd.edu "

29/7/05 12:22 PM

Brian, (this is gonna get confusing :))

this smells of more occult numerology...

I'm guessing the release date for this "PLANETORY Wah wah wah..." is going to be on lets say August 15th?

Cant larf enough, how dense do they think the general public is???

Ark of Covenant again anyone, yep August 14th...

Strange that they cant be given out as raw data in an unecrypted format also!!!

what is up with this scenario anyone?

J aka 'Brian, with a possible silver spoon'

29/7/05 2:09 PM  
IonTruO2 said...

Ah! There is nothing like a sharp pencil! Seems to last a long time.
That was good Fusion Knight!
Too funny. :) For all the technical FUBAR going on, what ever hapened to that brilliant Russian guy who wrote the algorithims for the excellent handwriting recognition engine that was integral to the Apple Newton? Pen input anybody? Cursive or print? Hellooo!? Graphitti and the like I've heard are still to catch up to what that pen input method was. I guess he is just another one of those funny disappearing innovators. Oh well. Hey! Pass me that $5000 space pen would ya!

29/7/05 2:26 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

...Pass me that $5000 space pen would ya!

...doh! mine just ran out...

Where's that $0.75c pencil...

29/7/05 2:34 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

FK, been thinking about this;

Fusion Knight said...
Here's another way to look at it... If the GOVERNMENT can get people to the moon, how much safter, better, cheaper, faster, could the private sector get people to the moon?

29/7/05 1:39 PM

Thinking of it like this...


"If the GOVERNMENT can get people to the moon..."

apparently if you believe NASA and the official public media, then spending trillion'$ of dollar'$ on space travel still gets moldy insulation, semi flat tyres and a lot of bad taste about crew fatality.

All that money and people are still dying...

Bro, you are one person probably looking for a budget that wouldnt buy you the laptop used to control the fuel guage...

...and you and me know, with enough public effort and will, we could build a serious contender...

...who are NASA trying to kid with all this we are the space elite speach...

FK, I'm with you bro, the idea is fantastic, I would love to build a gravity defying craft, that doesnt polute and allows me to zip to Mar's to check out the suspicion of an ancient and superior culture?

oooh yeah...

I'm thinking though that if the hypothesis of an advanced ancestory and looking at the 'ol book, then I'm guessing, we dont have to go to the mountain, it may well be coming to us...

Imagine a large craft called 'Zion'?

just a theory I'm starting to build. It's private, but the bible alludes to many events, which by old technology, were impossible!

Yep God is a spirit, but that's just more advanced than us, that goes without saying...

Staying tuned...

J aka 'Brian'

29/7/05 2:46 PM  
Fusion Knight said...

Brian,

"Bro, you are one person probably looking for a budget that wouldnt buy you the laptop used to control the fuel guage..."

True dat! I probably couldn't affort the platinum toilet Dan Goldin used to take a crap on either. But we CAN afford to create a solid, stable, reiable, safe, and economic space venture.

"...and you and me know, with enough public effort and will, we could build a serious contender...

...who are NASA trying to kid with all this we are the space elite speach...

FK, I'm with you bro, the idea is fantastic"

Well, head over to galileoproposal.blogspot.com and start helping make it happen! I've got a few folks scouring the blogosphere for anybody willing to chip in their two cents. I've already got several posts started: launch methods, useful links, unanswered questions, proposed mission profile, mission objectives, etc.

Anybody who wants, come on over and contribute. (You too Richard!) The more feedback we get, the more refined our plans can be, and the closer to reality the whole thing gets.

29/7/05 2:53 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

"Well, head over to galileoproposal.blogspot.com"...

hey I already blogged ya, no reply yet, from there at least, cos u r always here :))

...same as me :)

29/7/05 3:00 PM  
IonTruO2 said...

Sunking, Thanks-appreciated.

29/7/05 3:35 PM  
dan perez said...

Here's something bizzare I noticed last night on NBC Nightly News when they were showing "Enterprise".

According to Brian Williams, NASA borrowed a section of the RIGHT wing on the "Enterprise" as part of their investigation into the destruction of the shuttle Columbia but from all the videos I've seen of the insulation hitting the Columbia, the insulation hit the LEFT wing.

I also noticed some discrepancies connected to the flight of Discovery.

1. There was about 5 to 7 second delay in the footage that the networks showed on television, which would give NASA enough time to "censor" out something they wouldn't want us to see.

2. During a clips of a news conference that was aired on NBC Nightly News, a NASA official admitted that the section where the insulation flew off of the right side of external tank during Discovery's launch into space was a section that NASA "just happened to overlook". So NASA "just happens to overlook" a section of the very same type of fuel tank, with the very same type of insulation that damaged Columbia and eventually caused it's demise? What's wrong with that picture?

Is it possible something may have hit the right wing of Discovery and it was edited out of NASA's video feed or even replaced with another piece of footage before the networks aired the NASA feed?

Why would the networks implement a 5 to 7 second delay for the live feed of a NASA launch? I mean it's not like we're going to be seeing Janet Jackson's breast or hear Bono say the F-word on live TV when the shuttle takes off.

Something strange is going on here with Discovery and it may be tied right back into those celestial alignments I pointed out earlier.

29/7/05 4:58 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

dan perez said...
"Here's something bizzare...
...Something strange is going on here with Discovery and it may be tied right back into those celestial alignments I pointed out earlier..."

What's your theory Dan?

interested to hear, about the planetory alignment theory too...

29/7/05 5:01 PM  
midpac said...

Aloha Skipper,
(yes, that island, not gilligan's, by the way, and not that skipper either)
RIGHT ON RICHARD !!
Great to finally communicate more directly. Thank you so much for the good works you do for ALL! I have been with you since you first started on Art's show (sigh) way back when. Once I had read your site and links enough to grasp the keys, doors opened and my world 'exploded' he-he.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU .

I share the info with others and sometimes see their minds chewing on the mind bending, worldview transforming new (old) concepts/perspectives. FYI, re explaining 19.5, a phrase that helped me is: 'one of nature's mathematical signatures', like golden ratio, and Fibonacci series etc. Also the boat wake info is great & helpful too. Could all these signatures stem (Fibonacci pun not intended) from one basic pattern? Could that be a 'duh' ? Oh, duh.
Always wanted to say I agreed about the what & where of heaven's gate. Living here in 19.5 land gives chances to make some related, relatively trivial yet very interesting observations. I'll snailmail those to you.
One Honolulu evening, 1980 I had a related, curious "ufo sighting". It was ORGANIZED IN ADVANCE by a traveling oldtimer
'ufo buff'. About 50 of us showed up and saw a 150' or so diameter circle of 12 (circumferential?) white lights that appeared in the clouds or above the clouds, without a sound. Was the oldtimer 'buff' a scammer, or just another one of the scammed? Oh, and the evening's entertainment was replete with our car's lights mysteriously turning off&on twice as we neared the site, at the old north shore airfield. Must be fun for those guys up there with the keys.
They were lucky that Detective McGarret of Hawaii 5-0 was not around. (or is it hawaii 19.50)
Well, all for now. Just wanted to 'make contact', & say thanks again Richard! Great site, great blog, great work, great sense of humor!
aloha, c

29/7/05 5:30 PM  
Anonymous said...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45500

29/7/05 5:35 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

midpac said... sitting here, waiting for my wife to get home from getting her hair done, as she doesnt want to be late for a 'ball' that she is already an hour late for...

...sigh...

...the reason I mention her, is that she lived in Hawaii for 10 years, what is the 5-0 reference and 19.5 reference in your opinion?

also I'm blogging the seriious BIG G 5 here r.e. Rev 16:16 Armageddon. 555 5 555

http://jasgrave333.blogspot.com

...and maybe when you reply to this she and I will be at the ball, as long as it dont turn 12 then all pandamonium will break out...

J aka 'Brian with a silver slipper???'

29/7/05 5:37 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Anonymous,

>With the new spotlight on the Shuttle mission please don't let up on the Comet Temple story. It too deserves intense and sustained scutiny.<

While we're covering the Shuttle -- which is critical to any fulfillment of the President's "New Vision" (despite what some cynical critics have said here ...), and pointing out the deep inconsistencies in NASA's schizophrenic behavior toward its "centerpiece of 'manned' exploration" -- we are STILL working quietly behind the scenes on the continuing Deep Impact research.

When the Shuttle is safely back home, and the world can focus again on ANOTHER "space story," we will be publishing what we've found about the REAL Deep Impact Mission ....

Stay tuned. :)

29/7/05 6:29 PM  
Professor X said...

Richard,

10th planet discovered!

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050729_large_object.html

Comments?

29/7/05 6:52 PM  
brian c said...

Fusion Knight said...
"NASA spent who knows how much money developing a ball point pen that would write in a zero-gravity environment. Know what the Russians did? They used a pencil."


From what I've read, this one is just an oft-repeated myth...

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

"Fisher did ultimately develop a pressurized pen for use by NASA astronauts (now known as the famous "Fisher Space Pen"), but both American and Soviet space missions initially used pencils, NASA did not seek out Fisher and ask them to develop a "space pen," Fisher did not charge NASA for the cost of developing the pen, and the Fisher pen was eventually used by both American and Soviet astronauts."

29/7/05 7:07 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Professor X,

>10th planet discovered!

>http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050729_large_object.html

>Comments?<

Still looking into it.

JPL was supposed to hold a briefing this afternoon (4:00 PM Pacific)... but NASA TV did NOT carry it! They deemed the crews sleeping aboard the Station and Discovery -- and "Flight Day Highlights" of the previous work day (which, of course, was on TAPE) -- more "important" ....

29/7/05 7:45 PM  
PIF said...

NASA on Foam
by Greg Katnik
December 23, l997
"During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the external tank. Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally friendly products, a new method of "foaming" the external tank had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission."

http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/people/journals/space/katnik/sts87-12-23.html


Pull plug on NASA
Calls for shut down due to repeated failures using enviro products causing destruction of both Challenger & Columbia

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45500

29/7/05 8:16 PM  
Shadow Hawk said...

Intersting Pif... Very interesting.

Richard! Great stuff... I catch up with you when I can.

29/7/05 9:42 PM  
Templemaster333 said...

Does anybody know if it was ever discussed at all by NASA whether the lightning bolt that was seen and photographed tracking the vapor trail of Columbia could actually have been responsible for serious damage? It looks to me like this is another story that has gone down the memory hole!

29/7/05 9:55 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

PIF,

>NASA on Foam
by Greg Katnik
December 23, l997
"During the STS-87 mission, there was a change made on the external tank. Because of NASA's goal to use environmentally friendly products, a new method of "foaming" the external tank had been used for this mission and the STS-86 mission."

>http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/people/journals/space/katnik/sts87-12-23.html


We need to find the FOLLOW-UP studies that NASA did ... and why, if it WAS the switch to a different foam ... NASA didn't switch back!

29/7/05 10:04 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Templemaster333,

>Does anybody know if it was ever discussed at all by NASA whether the lightning bolt that was seen and photographed tracking the vapor trail of Columbia could actually have been responsible for serious damage? It looks to me like this is another story that has gone down the memory hole!<


Funny you should ask. I (finally) saw those exact images just a few days ago ... from a British television broadcast. And the "lightning" did NOT behave like "lightning." And, it did NOT follow the ionization trail of the re-entering Columbia ....

It looks like (more) debris coming off the Shuttle ....

If I can find the link again, I'll post it.

29/7/05 10:13 PM  
the old man from scene 24 said...

Someone posted earlier about why they are still using heat tiles. I have often wondered about that.

I seem to remember reading a few years ago about someone, I think it was in England, who invented a paint with remarkable heat shielding properties. When I read it, I wondered why don't they use it on the shuttle.

I wish I could remember now where I read that.

29/7/05 10:58 PM  
the old man from scene 24 said...

Regarding the 10th planet, here are some interesting tidbits from an AP article.

"This is the first object to be confirmed to be larger than Pluto in the outer solar system," Michael Brown, a planetary scientist at the California Institute of Technology, said in a telephone briefing.

The briefing was hastily arranged after Brown received word that a secure Web site containing the discovery was hacked and the hacker threatened to release the information.


Ok, why were they witholding this information, and why did they feel threatened by an unauthorized release?

Why?

Why else!

The research was funded by NASA.

Another interesting bit...

It has taken scientists this long to find the planet because its orbit is at an angle compared to the orbits of most planets.

Interesting on so many levels. First, why the need to explain why it has taken "so long" to find the planet? Oh yeah, that's right. Because there shouldn't be any more surprises this close to home. Deep space surprises are ok, but surprises within our own neighborhood sow uncertainty - if they only now found this, why else haven't they found? Etc.

Second, at an angle to the orbit could mean it is a captured object.

29/7/05 11:08 PM  
Anonymous said...

Richard, what are your feelings on the "NASA Smoking Gun" video???

30/7/05 12:19 AM  
Sodapop said...

Richard,

Love your website, I lived in Albuqerque for 5 years, went to UNM.
Why did Enterprise never go into space?

30/7/05 1:04 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Anonymous.

>Richard, what are your feelings on the "NASA Smoking Gun" video???<

WHAT "smoking gun video?" :)

30/7/05 1:11 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Sodapop,

>Why did Enterprise never go into space?<

Because NASA holds grudges: after the Star Trek fans convinced President Ford in 1976 -- over NASA's vigorous (and bizarre) objections -- to rename the first Space Shuttle "Enterprise," NASA was determined it would NEVER send the Enterprise into space ....

Your Space Agency in action ....

30/7/05 1:19 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Old man from scene 24:

... maybe another spaceship like Japetus?
Richard, I cannot wait to read chapter 7 of that tale.

30/7/05 1:39 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

The Old Man From Ccene 24,

>The briefing was hastily arranged after Brown received word that a secure Web site containing the discovery was hacked and the hacker threatened to release the information.

>Ok, why were they witholding this information, and why did they feel threatened by an unauthorized release?

>First, why the need to explain why it has taken "so long" to find the planet? Oh yeah, that's right. Because there shouldn't be any more surprises this close to home. Deep space surprises are ok, but surprises within our own neighborhood sow uncertainty - if they only now found this, why else haven't they found? Etc.<


I think you're on to something re the "uncertainty" factor .... :)

Of course, if it's NOT a minor planet that's always been there ... but a "recently-acquired" neighbor .... :)

30/7/05 1:58 AM  
Massimo IT said...

This could be a plot for a nice SF novel:

Astronomers begin to find NEW planet sized objects there where there was nothing just a little time before.
They are afraid to report that they had the means to see such objects before, and they were watching right there, but there was nothing there few months or years before, and now ... Sedna, Quaroar, the new one and counting.
Next step, radio signals ...
Next step, CONTACT (but not for everybody ...)
Next step, a "2001 A Space Odyssey" type spaceship (nuclear powered) moves from Earth towards the outer realms of the solar system.
I like that, anyway, speculating on such things is really stimulating.
Who told that the Sitchin's Gods had to come back with just ONE planet?
:D

30/7/05 2:13 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Massimo IT,

>This could be a plot for a nice SF novel:<


:)

30/7/05 2:31 AM  
Anonymous said...

formerly 'midpac'
Had to change user name. Could not access with username 'midpac'

Jasgrave, Sorry, I guess I should have elaborated on that 19.5 subject. I was attempting to keep it brief. I am on big island, Hawaii, north of where latititude 19.5 crosses the island.
By the way, Mauna Loa Volcano summit caldera is just about on latitude 19.478, these days (the islands are creeping to the NW). I believe my friend was right when she said that Mauna Loa is the biggest 'thing' on our planet, measuring its mass from the seabed.
Seasoned Art Bell listeners may recall one late Terence McKenna, the swashbuckling raconteur explorer of altered consciousness. He lived at latitude 19.5, on the slopes of that active volcano, mauna loa. Another story, that one.
Anyhow, regarding Hawaii 5-0 and the "ufo sighting organized in advance by an oldtimer ufo buff", here is the explanation. It is kinda interesting, to some, maybe, well, me .... It connects with the subject of secret fancy skyships.
I'll begin with explaining how the 'sighting' was 'organized in advance' ..... 1980, Honolulu, Oahu (different island), the guy gets on his friend's radio show one morning and tells the listeners about the benevolent space brothers. Next morning he announces "landing invitation" to space brothers over the radio.
He gives location in latitude & longitude, "so that only the serious will come". I get serious and go. The location is old dillingham airfield, north shore, about latitude 21-35'. Beautiful tropical evening, 730pm.
As we near the field, all lights in the car blink off & on twice, (never happened before nor since). The engine never missed a beat. How do they do that anyway? Blinking lights were OK, because we 're going to meet the space brothers, after all, whaddaya expect ? We arrive, 50 or so people, some a little nervous, the space brothers and all. The guy has us stand in a big circle while he tells stories. Then above our circle, in or above the low thin clouds appears a 150' or so (how to know? coulda been much bigger) diameter circle of 12 big white lights. Not a sound. The lights are fuzzy, like streetlamps in a blizzard, due to the clouds, apparently.
After a while, a woman telepathically learns that the brothers cannot land, due to some danger ( darn, probably happens a lot! don't you just hate when the space brothers cannot land? ). Soon after that, the lights quietly drift off to the east, out of sight.
All this is true as recalled many times, unchanged. Since then I have reviewed this with others that were there. There WAS a silent circle of lights, and the car's lights DID blink off & on twice ( 1960 Thunderbird, the one that looks like a rocket ship. Dang, wish I still had that car, now worth 35K ). We were not close enough to the guy to get zapped or drugged. We simply showed up, stood in a circle and saw the lights. Some people did not even get close enough to see the guy's face. The car lights blinked before we even got there, but close.
Was he a scammer or was he also one of the scammed ? I can think of ways he could have been scammed into believing what he was saying.

However, I don't think it was the benevolent space brothers or sisters. Although I yet dream of the advanced benevolent space siblings coming to our rescue (why not?). So what if they look like us? The sad alternative is that that night it probably was just more psy-ops and disinformation fun & games, courtesy of the guys up there with the keys to the elegant craft. They probably do it all the time, as Capt. Richard has learned and shown us.
Jasgrave, the reference to Hawaii 5-0 was about the old cops & robbers tv show, Hawaii 5-0, starring Detective Steve McGarret. The joke was that the robbers (of our tax dollars) were cruising around in the clouds, piloting their really quiet hotrod, scamming us on the ground and getting away with it that night. Detective McGarret was not around to bring us justice, yet.
Well, there it is. I'm outta the closet now, aloha, c

30/7/05 2:45 AM  
Anonymous said...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000083C6D/102-6668363-4331313?v=glance

its called "Secret NASA Transmissions: Smoking Gun"

if you havent seen it richard you MUST watch it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0345911/

you can download the video, just go to www.bittorrent.com and get a bittorrent client and download 1 of these torrents

http://static.thepiratebay.org/downloadtorrent/3277242.torrent/UFO_-_The_Secret_NASA_Transmissions_The_Smoking_Gun(2004)_DVDRIP.3277242.TPB.torrent
http://static.thepiratebay.org/downloadtorrent/3355941.torrent/The_Secret_NASA_Transmissions.3355941.TPB.torrent

its a pretty amazing video, hes found ufos all over nasas actual footage.

(this has raised speculations regarding the grounding of the shuttle fleet)

30/7/05 2:58 AM  
Grateful said...

"When the time is right, do what is right."

The All Seeing Eye is pleased. Have no fear. KBS/Marbacher/Harshaw and all his other silly screen names was your biggest fan all along. You are loved.

30/7/05 3:07 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Midpac,

Helluva great story!

A lot of this type thing went on in the 1950's -- with "landings" aranged (if you can believe it) over short-wave HAM radio! And, people would show ... and the "craft" would NOT ....

I think you're on to something about the "psy-ops" crowd. Testing your reactions, I would venture a guess ....

The trick with the lights (but NOT the ignition) was cool ....

"Book 'em, Danno!" :)

30/7/05 3:17 AM  
Robert said...

Anon.. I can't seem to get that video to download. Does the book have it's own website?

30/7/05 3:59 AM  
Massimo IT said...

Robert,
I followed the indications and it worked: first install the tool, than launch the download. But it is at a very low pace: I launched it, it begun half an hour later, and the rate is 4K/s (and I am on a LAN ...). It will take me days to get it, but I will.

30/7/05 4:11 AM  
Anonymous said...

Why is the live space walk footage on nasa tv so poor? Not even in color.

30/7/05 4:13 AM  
Massimo IT said...

I got this ID4 Home DVD with special content. The second DVD includes among the rest a commented footage from a NASA STS mission (I don't recall which one now) showing this UFO flying, then making an amazing turn and accelerating as fast as it could (and it was really fast) towards free space ... because it was SHOT from Earth, and one can even see the shot, sort of a particle shower aiming at the place where the UFO was just instants before.
I have seen it also in some web sites. The UFO turn was calculated at something like hundreds of thousands of g's (!!!). But what was really giving me a strange feeling was, the footage was presented in the DVD as for real and well known by NASA and other space business officiers. I gave myself some explanations (or speculative thinkings of sort): first of all, aim of the released footage was, to begin to trigger the mind of the most interested people about the reality of this sort of things. Second, as a minimum we (Mankind) already got some defenses. Third, it could even be that what was shown there was just a space command drill, and that the flying object was ours too. And personally, I am very much in favour of this hypotesis more than all the rest. Eventually, this would also give a new meaning to the words of one US politician (I don't remember who), answering some years ago a question about what space was for the US, and the answer was: "Space is where war will be fought".

30/7/05 4:34 AM  
Massimo IT said...

And of course particle beam weapons are REALITY now. I remember an article on Scientific American in the Seventies, describing the problems to solve in their development (they were under development 30 years ago, anybody can convince me they are not fully operational now? Or maybe they are even obsolete due to scalar technology ...)
if just some part of this is true, then I really feel very uncomfortable with the STS and the Fairy Tale of the Evil Tiles. Sadly.

30/7/05 4:44 AM  
PIF said...

The portions of the current spacewalk I saw were in color - on FOX.

Richard,
I understand the kind of foam docs you would like, but I suspect those and other simular docs are not and never will be publicly available. You need a good mole in NASA...
PIF

30/7/05 6:57 AM  
thomas said...

Massimo it

re: "Space is where war will be fought"

'Particle beam weaponry'.....

you are knockng on truth's door!...bless you.........

the 32 year old (and counting) prohibition of manned flights beyond near-Earth orbit is linked to the Apollo 13 mission....

And it appears that NASA is still in a flux as to what happened to Columbia....

We have a illegal,unprovoked ground invasion of two Middle East nations which may be a distraction for another totally different scenario ...

lots of dots here to connect .....

I have listed links on my previous posts to Richard's blog's going back to his original one 'War of the World's' (his archive link & recent)... You may find them interesting....

Best Regards,

"This was no boating accident"...Richard Dreyfuss, JAWS,1975

30/7/05 7:22 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

"I think you're on to something re the "uncertainty" factor .... :)

Of course, if it's NOT a minor planet that's always been there ... but a "recently-acquired" neighbor .... :) "

I was wondering about that...

again, anything to do with what was in comparision to the sun, a huge spot to the right of it?

Again a reminder I blogged the original NASA Umbra pictures and enhanced and zoomed the spot

http://strange-spot-next-to-sun-18th-july-05.blogspot.com/

it was a geometric shape...

With a lot of rum and a lot of staring I could make out a pyramid in the enhanced blob and three pillars around the center pyramid...

But I'm open to suggestions as to what it was...

J aka 'Brian'

30/7/05 9:28 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

midpac :) heard you on the login, same thing happened to me at www.jehovahs-witness.com, when I was documenting the seven FIVES leading to the start date of armageddon... (http://jasgrave333.blogspot.com)

Anonymous said...
formerly 'midpac'
Had to change user name. Could not access with username 'midpac'

Jasgrave, Sorry, I guess I should have elaborated on that 19.5 subject. I was attempting to keep it brief. I am on big island, Hawaii, north of where latititude 19.5 crosses the island..."

Thanks loads for this information, as a theological scholar (as one of my disciplines) it is interesting to note Isaiah 40 and onwards, it speaks of the islands fleeing in terror...

Five (5) is also the bible calibrated number...

check the 5th book of the bible

5th chapter
5th verse
5th word

The UFO experience with 'benevolent' space brothers was interesting, flashing your car lights, was interesting too...

Yep I do believe the accout...

An interesting almost unrelated as to why I believe your story, my father an ex-fire officer, for the UK Firebrigade, had witnessed many unusual and paranormal events...

One of the most interesting things he told me was of a military air base in the UK that was under his firecommand.

The firemen were instructed to let burn or destroy *any* thing that crashed and burned in it's imediate military zone...

Although my dad has not witnessed anything crashing, the military officer was clear in his instructions to "push anything wriggling back into the flames"

Which begs the question, were the military completely callus regarding a crashed craft?

Or

Did they know something was up...

2nd story

Firemen bored on firestation start dabbling with Ougi board...

The inevitable happens according to my dads credible and honest scared account

Room went cold, foot prints from locked door walking to another locked door and opening and going through.... etc usual old ghost story...

But as a Fireman his accounts were factual and to the point...

In a minor way, these small events pave the way to ask questions of personell with access to larger amounts of available data on these phenomena to be honest and release all the data making it official...

i.e. the Goverment and all that is controls.

We as humans of this planet, have more than a natural GOD GIVEN RIGHT to know all there is to know about our Universe and all that sorounds it...

a large X or 10th planet suddenly found in a captured orbit...

Wasn't it Daniel who prophesied a large stone being cut of mount Zion and destroying the feet of the image in the vision...

What if Zion is a huge planet sized craft?

Questions questions...

And possibly some answers

30/7/05 9:46 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

heh heh heh... getting old from scene 24's cryptic larf...

"We have a illegal,unprovoked ground invasion of two Middle East nations which may be a distraction for another totally different scenario ...

lots of dots here to connect ....."


Like the onset of the supernatural war of armageddon...

Five months of torment (Rev 9:5 and Rev 9:10) begining July 10th (Dan 12:12 Rev 9:11, culminating in the final battle... Rev 16:16

I still maintain also, only mention of the word shuttle in the bible is at Job 24:6...

http://jasgrave333.blogspot.com

Alien or not, the beings being described are advanced...

Interesting times...

Staying tuned

30/7/05 10:00 AM  
IonTruO2 said...

Jasgrave 333,
Hello. Just a note to let you know that your blog with the sunspot will not show the image.
http://strange-spot-next-to-sun-18th-july-05.blogspot.com/
I have tried numerous times. One effort gave me a split second flash of an image and it was gone. Being blocked perhaps? Very unusual behaviour I must say, being that I am with blogger as well. Haven't seen that before. All efforts since show a blank template with your basic info.
Anybody else?

30/7/05 10:18 AM  
IonTruO2 said...

Jasgrave 333
Sorry! I've got it now. A little moment of self confusion.

30/7/05 10:22 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Talking of the United Nations, the Ark of the Covenant and other strange findings...

http://nwowatcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=209.0

"When the UN Headquarters Building [New York] was built in 1946, the architects included a Meditation Room in which the only object available to worshipers is the rectangular Black Rock, a symbol of the tellurian underworld thrust up from thedarkness below. This Black Rock is the hidden Goddess. It is the rock upon which the Church of the UNbelievers isbuilt, and the center of the Organization." (29)
This Meditation Room also contains an abstract piece of art:

"...what appears to be a serpent intertwining a pole intersected by the perpendicular side of a triangle
(cf. the central cross intertwined with a serpent) in front of a half-darkened sun representing the
Zoroastrian concept of the conflict between good and evil...." (30)"


This is not a good omen either...

Please do not take the above to be gospel, but with the added FACT that the UN has a replica Ark of the Covenant, I'm starting to be surprised by less and less...

The UN the true occult?

J aka 'Brian'

30/7/05 10:43 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

..."These occultic overtones, with the "Black Rock" and the abstract-serpent-art, are definitely intentional. And no wonder - according to William Norman Grigg in his book 'Freedom on the Altar', the Lucis Trust (which was founded by Alice Bailey) helped to create not only the UN Meditation Room, but also the UN's interfaith "Temple of Understanding" ('Freedom on the Altar', p. 165). Also of interest, Alice Bailey enthusiasts Corrine McLaughlin and Gordon Davidson have, in their book 'Spiritual Politics', described the UN Meditation Room as a place where spiritual experiences have been known to be had by UN officials and associates. Furthermore, the authors claim the following about it:

"The room ... has been referred to as one of the holiest of
holies on the planet.... It is the focus for the energies of a
unified planet and humanity, and for right relations among
all its kingdoms of life." (31)

This book is lauded by New Age author David Spangler, who is widely recognized for his statements that a "Luciferic Initiation" will be required of all people to enter into the New Age. It also receives praise from Dr. Noel Brown, the director of the United Nations Environmental Program, who says that he hopes that the book will be read by "leaders in all spheres of life". And no wonder, for it accurately portrays the UN as a product of anti-Christian New Age thought:"

it's the pyramid part that interested me...

The pyramid shape, seems to be intrisically wound round our cores as Humans.

We have a pyramid on the $ bill's in the USA for instance...

A lot of UFO's have three pointed sides... all of this is not coincidental...

The largest, best and most beuatiful ancient structure in Egypt is the great pyramid, with similar designs being found around the earth...

...Could it be that Zion (Jehovah's holy mountain) is a pyramid shaped craft?

Questions questions :)

J aka 'Brian'

http://nwowatcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=209.0

30/7/05 10:47 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

reference reading to go along with the top two entries:

www.usasurvival.org/med-room.html
Inside the U.N. meditation room.

www.meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/New_World_Order/earth_charter.htm
U.N. Earth Charter

www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Earth_Charter_Ark.htm
Earth Charter #2

www.realnews247.com/altar_comparison_pictorial.htm
Altar of Silence

www.aquaac.org/un/medmtgs.html
Meetings At The Meditation Room

www.freemasonrywatch.org/lucistrust.html
Lucis Trust Connections

www.hiddenmysteries.com/item/item49.html
Book on U.N. med-room

www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/year2005.html
David Icke article on the FTAA]

30/7/05 10:48 AM  
cristian said...

Planet x nasa admits
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/29jul_planetx.htm?list39638

30/7/05 11:49 AM  
djbarney said...

there's too much noise and confusion

30/7/05 12:05 PM  
the old man from scene 24 said...

I haven't downloaded those smoking gun videos, but from the description above, it sounds like video that first appeared on the old Sightings show. I still have a videotape of it around here somewhere.

30/7/05 12:39 PM  
the old man from scene 24 said...

Of course, if it's NOT a minor planet that's always been there ... but a "recently-acquired" neighbor .... :)

Richard - sort of like the medieval church and its insistence that creation is perfect. Science would never say today that creation (AKA the universe) is perfect or even stable, but with its insistence on monumental time scales of change, it might as well be stable and perfect. Yes, the sun will one day consume the earth, but that's a billion years in the future.

In any case, I still find it strange that they were witholding this info until someone hacked their system and threatened to expose them. Why?

30/7/05 12:47 PM  
Mundane_Noodle said...

Hey, how about a solution like this for preventing foam from flying off the external fuel tank-
WRAP the whole tube of the tank from top to bottom with a fishnet-type stocking made of lightweight, super-strong, flame resistant fiber (Kevlar?).
Would that Get-R-Done?
If the foam fractured during launch, the stocking would prevent it from flying off and damaging tiles.
.
.
.
Something Off Topic, but for a wee chuckle:

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/startrek.htm

30/7/05 1:23 PM  
Anonymous said...

the thing about the "ufos" on the 'smoking gun' video is they appear to behave more like fish, or bugs that buzz you curiously. the theory is these things move too fast to see, but they slow down to 'buzz around' our crafts.


SERIOUSLY! if any of you havent seen this video SEE IT!!! it blew me away, ive been a follower of this stuff for years, but this blew me away.

you cant NOT see it. oh and hes also got video and audio of spacewalking astronauts saying things like "did you see that?", "its right in front of you", "theres a bunch of them", "im glad i wasnt the only one who saw that"

but my favorite has to be from a well trained astronaut who responded to "look its right in front of you" with "i dont know what you are talking about"


if someone said to you, "hey theres a bug in front of you" why would you ever say "i dont know what you are talking about"

anyway im trashing the quality of this film with my bad descriptions. SEE THE FILM

as i said it can be downloaded with a BIT TORRENT CLIENT. all you do is install a client and then open a torrent file:

http://static.thepiratebay.org/downloadtorrent/3355941.torrent/The_Secret_NASA_Transmissions.3355941.TPB.torrent

30/7/05 1:59 PM  
Anonymous said...

"I haven't downloaded those smoking gun videos, but from the description above, it sounds like video that first appeared on the old Sightings show. I still have a videotape of it around here somewhere."

no, its not

30/7/05 2:02 PM  
Anonymous said...

"I followed the indications and it worked: first install the tool, than launch the download. But it is at a very low pace: I launched it, it begun half an hour later, and the rate is 4K/s (and I am on a LAN ...). It will take me days to get it, but I will."


yah bit torrent is an interesting technology. but it generally works as "the more you have the more you get" because its a giant p2p cloud of chunks, the more chunks you have to give the more chunks you will get. therefore it usually starts very slow but will speed up to consume your entire bandwith after a while (if theres enough peers)...


its worth the download!

30/7/05 2:09 PM  
jasgrave333 said...

WOW is anyone watching the history channel right now???

Ezekial 1:4 about the Lights from the sky...

The ancient descriptions of what could only be described as UFO phenomena...

it's kewl...

J aka 'Brian'

30/7/05 2:33 PM  
Oris Bracken said...

Richard,

I envy you were there during Saturn and first Shuttle launches. Progression from Ley-V2-Von Braun, Chesley Bonestell Collier’s Magazine cover art, to actualization through Dynasoar and mighty Saturn to Space Shuttle is the mass media perception of progression.

I totally agree --without any strong answer to the liftoff problem-- rockets are not practical in long run. Most jet air craft are not sustainable. Amount of fuel used and incredible atmospheric destruction per flaming smoky launch or cross country flight.. Eventually, living environment demands fewer launches, cutting back on commercial jet flights, and allowing only a minimal number of military aircraft worldwide.

Because my site Room322.com honors Challenger and Columbia much email comes with theories about elastic O-ring seal and silicate fiber tile blamed accidents. Many think there was a nefarious back op mission working in both instances. They question the cause analysis of those two tragedies. After the Challenger explosion there were scientists who openly said it could not be O-ring failure saying not that fragile. When the Columbia first launched reports were 140+ tiles came off and have been dropping off ever since (on all shuttles), so procedures for checking tile damage were common and in place. Were the disaster causes sloppy maintenance work?

I wasn’t in the least surprised when Discovery tiles fell off.

No question that NASA set the tone for mega-coverage tile news by launching Discovery at exact same time they last launched Columbia!

While press is counting tiles government passes CAFTA by two votes in middle of night, no coverage.

And now no one wonders about Tempel 1 data. Perhaps they are holding T 1 Deep Impact analysis with photos to let Discovery have its well deserved moment.

My site launched on Cosmonotics Day (April, 9) which is the day Yury Gagarin went into orbit and also the Columbia as our first Shuttle was launched. I have always had homepage Richard C. Hoagland links under “Recommended Reading” and since February a feature with link to your excellent and amazing Iapetus report. Makings of new book I hope.

Oris Bracken

30/7/05 5:01 PM  
PIF said...

Oris Bracken,
I believe you should also commemorate Alex/Andre Sokolov who was the real first man in space - the mission was a disaster, and his parachute landed in Northwest China. His father began the Sukolov line of Russian fighers and I think the son now heads it.

30/7/05 5:09 PM  
TempleMaster333 said...

Some words about the numerous posts on this site which seem to arise from the superstition of numerology and references to apocalyptic literature....
Few would now deny that our civilisation is being faced with the inevitable and not too distant depletion of the single resource which allows it to exists and to progress - oil. Even if there is any validity to the "creamy nugget" theory that oil is renewable within the Earth's mantle, our ability acess it would be limited and it would be created at a fixed rate. Our rate of consumption, however, is spiraling up exponentially so that such an effect would be of little help. Hence, the looming crisis of PEAK OIL. Now, most people,being guided by moral imperatives of some sort, would look at this situation and devise a plan that would bring on-line as many new alternative sources of energy as possible and explain to people why they need to change the resource intensive ways that they live. They would act in a responsible manner to try and rescue humanity from this impending doom .
There is another, much smaller but much more powerful group of people who look at this very same situation and decide that they need to grab what energy resources are left by waging pre-emptive wars against the countries to whom these resources belong. Their plan for escaping the coming crises will be by forced reduction of the Earth's population through endless war, famine and pestilence, with the only survivors being themselves, their families and rich buddies, with a sufficient number of commoners to serve their needs. You can call these guys the "New World Order" or whatever you want. The bottom line is that they are EVIL and some of them even worship SATAN. Their thinking is guided by that old reptilian portion of the brain which is the playground of Satan. They are insane sociopaths and they will utilize the most despicible type of treachery and deceit to get what they want. That includes staging bombings and terrorist attacks and then appealing to the apocalyptic aspects of the world religions to install feelings of fear, hopelessness and resignation in the population, with the goal that they will turn to authority for security and protection. Part of this program involves the furthering of occult practices and witchcraft. Spreading the ideas of numerology, that numbers carry some mystical significance, e.g., 666,111,555, etc. can also serve this agenda. Some of us can play around with this stuff and take it lightly, but I suspect there are some of you who take it TOO seriously.
When Richard speaks of the "hyperdimensional" significance of the number 39, he is of course referring to 2 x 19.5,
+/- 19.5 degrees being the latitudes at which he sees certain hyperdimensional energy anomalies on various planets. He is referring to either a real or perceived physical effect that can be obsrved. That being the case, it is nonetheless probably not productive to take that number 39 and keep throwing it around as a numerological football, as it's original significance will be lost and it will then begin to serve the evil agenda described above. If we are to prevail in the impending struggle with these evil madmen described above, we all need to keep our wits about us.
The true threat that the NWO is afraid of in regards to discoveries like TEMPEL 1 and the Mars artifacts are that knowledge of them will bring a new understanding of our place in the Universe and with it, HOPE.

30/7/05 10:22 PM  
Anonymous said...

Richard,

I also emailed the DI team regarding the delay in the release of real data and got the same "form-letter" response. However I didn't stop there. I thought that you would be interested in the additional DI response. I responded back to the "form-letter" with:

> Ms. Warner,
>
> Thank you for your prompt reply to my inquiry amid what must be very
> hectic schedule. I have just one further question as to the length of
> time before the release. I know that the scientists on the team should
> have exclusive access to the data for a period of time so that they can
> receive the proper credit for analyzing what they have worked so hard
> to acquire. However, I would have intuitively thought that 60 to 90
> days would have been ample time to process and analyze the data. Why
> the 8 month delay?

I got the following response within 15 minutes of hitting the send button:

From: Elizabeth Warner [warnerem@astro.umd.edu]

To: Steve H.
[xxxxxxx@mac.com]
Date: Fri Jul 29, 2005 02:48:41 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Deep Impact Feedback





Hi Steve,

Actually about 6 months... We deliver data to PDS 6 months after encounter.
PDS then takes a couple of weeks to make sure everything is in the proper
format. The better we do our job during the 6 months, the faster it goes
through the PDS system.

By Feb 2006, the data should be available.

Elizabeth
[warnerem@astro.umd.edu]

I was surprised by the rapid response and the personal touch. I was not surprised at the vagueness of the response. It would logically seem that if they can present the findings in August, then the data should have been analysed by then. Therefore the DI team is without a logical justification for not releasing the data at that time! It has been my experiance that when you present a scientific paper you present the data to support your conclusions at that time. Without the data, what you say is as much "science fantasy"! I guess DI has a different benchmark for acceptable scientific method then I learned in college!

Steve H.

30/7/05 10:36 PM  
mlwhitt said...

Wow Richard everytime I come back to the new blog your number of comments just keeps rising. Glad to see that it is going so well. I was talking with Lesley over at http://thedebrisfield.blogspot.com/ and we wish you could talk other c2c guest and host into doing a blog. Sorry to get off topic here, but can you put a word in for us the next time you are on C2C with George or Art about them starting a blog. ;)

30/7/05 10:46 PM  
the old man from scene 24 said...

Peak Oil

Think of it from a strategic standpoint. IF we are nearing a point of peak oil production and from now on, countries will battle for an ever dwindling supply of crude oil, what is the strategic advantage of grabbing any portion of the oil supply, even the largest portion? Sooner or later, even if you own it all, it's going to run out.

And then where will you be?

I'll tell you where.

You'll be a third world country beholden to whoever it is who is able to create a military based an energy source not limited by geography.

From a strategic standpoint, grabbing up oil reserves is foolish. It's like buying up horses and cornering the market on buggy whips. In the end, you will be conquered and enslaved.

If I were president of this great country, I'd be spending every dime I could on setting my military free of dependency on petroleum. If I can sit back and attack the global oil supply without having to worry about such attacks affecting my own strategic energy supply, then I can cripple every oil dependent nation on earth and force them into subjugation.

Not that that is what I would want to do as president. I'm just saying, from a strategic standpoint, oil dependency is idiotic.

As Paul Muad'dib said, he who can destroy a thing, controls that thing.

30/7/05 10:49 PM  
kcjavaman said...

Richard,

With the discovery of two new planets or large objects (2003 EL61 and 2003UB313) in the Kuniper Belt or beyond which were announced this week, do we now have additional proof of the Hyperdimensional Physics model? I know from reading your articles in the past, we needed to find one or two more large bodies out there to give a correct calculation for the angular momentum of the solar system. How close are we?

What do you think the object captured in the SOHO photos from 7/20? It can't be a transit of Mercury, so what is it?

Wow, what a busy month it has been. Have you gotten any sleep? ;)

Thanks for this great blog you have added, and at just the right time it seems!

kcjavaman

31/7/05 12:05 AM  
Anonymous said...

anonymous said:

"SERIOUSLY! if any of you havent seen this video SEE IT!!! it blew me away, ive been a follower of this stuff for years, but this blew me away."

The video portion of the torrent file doesn't show up in any of my video players, although most of them will play the audio portion with no problems. Any suggestions?

31/7/05 12:42 AM  
ncstagger said...

Mr. Hoagland,

Excellent blog. I have followed your work since the mid-90's when I would listen to you on Art Bell's show. You hooked me in with your extensive ideas about Egypt and what may be lurking there in/under the desert.

Lots of "stuff" going on currently, but I am still most interested in just what in the hell the "official" explanation is as to what that ridge is on Iapetus...how do "they" explain that?

Staying tuned.

31/7/05 2:14 AM  
ncstagger said...

old man from scene 24,

I have often wondered a very similar thing...why is it that those currently in control of our energy sources (oil/utility companies) do not pour resources into cornering the market on whatever the next energy source is going to be?

They certainly know as well as anyone else that the proven oil reserves will be running out soon. Why are they not taking the lead in developing and marketing alternative energy sources and distribution systems?

Is it because there is no other energy source that can possibly replace oil? Or is it that they know that the next generation of energy sources will not be profitable to sell?

Or is it something else?

31/7/05 2:21 AM  
Anonymous said...

Richard: Please save your stubborness for NASA. This blog is almost unreadable with the black background and white text. It is NOT "kewl"; it SUCKS. Why not do your readers a favor and change to light/white background with dark text?

31/7/05 2:35 AM  
Anonymous said...

Richard: about the blog colors. You should be able to easily change your template. If not, your webmaster can do it by just substituting a few HTML color codes in the template. Oh, I forgot, your webmaster also has illusions that black backgrouns and white text makes him "trendy chic kewl".

31/7/05 2:42 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Anonymous [who we really now know is "Steve H. -- :) ],


>I was surprised by the rapid response and the personal touch. I was not surprised at the vagueness of the response. It would logically seem that if they can present the findings in August, then the data should have been analysed by then. Therefore the DI team is without a logical justification for not releasing the data at that time! It has been my experiance that when you present a scientific paper you present the data to support your conclusions at that time. Without the data, what you say is as much "science fantasy"! I guess DI has a different benchmark for acceptable scientific method then I learned in college!<

>Steve H.<


I'm not. :)

It's obvious that Deep Impact is engaged in MAJOR attempted "damage control" -- probably because of the attention which has been directed at its unprecedented lack of ANY publication of REAL imaging and spectrographic data, subsequent to the supposed successful/unsuccessful climax of the Mission!

The fact that you have exposed another DEEP contradiction in the Deep Impact political "fiction" about this Mission is also not surprising.

OF COURSE, if they can prepare a paper for delivery in Brazil next Monday (August 8th), as that Conference opens ... they can also provide US taxpayers (who paid, remember "$333 million dollars for all this ...) with the SUPPORTING data -- as, yes, they will HAVE to provide it to the Conference proceedings in their paper(s).

It will be VERY interesting to compare what they "release" with what we now can PROVE as to what they REALLY found ....

Stay tuned.

31/7/05 2:46 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Kcjavaman,

>With the discovery of two new planets or large objects (2003 EL61 and 2003UB313) in the Kuniper Belt or beyond which were announced this week, do we now have additional proof of the Hyperdimensional Physics model? I know from reading your articles in the past, we needed to find one or two more large bodies out there to give a correct calculation for the angular momentum of the solar system. How close are we?<


Actually, these new objects are still too small to account for the "HD deficit" predicted by the calculations. We really need to find the "Mars-sized objects" that Alan Stern has predicted (from his completely separate computer models) which also should be out there ....

Since Tom Van Flandern and I believe that ALL these bodies are actually the remains of a couple of BIG guys which formed WAY beyond Neotune ... and then blew up! ... what we're REALLY seeing (I believe) is another aspect of the "proof" that HD energy sources really work: the remains of a couple of planets which HD DESTROYED several hundred million years ago ....


>What do you think the object captured in the SOHO photos from 7/20? It can't be a transit of Mercury, so what is it?<


Have NO idea. Haven't had time to look. :)


>Wow, what a busy month it has been. Have you gotten any sleep? ;)<


No .... :)


>Thanks for this great blog you have added, and at just the right time it seems!<


There's NO WAY I can keep this up (!), so enjoy it while it lasts .... :)

31/7/05 3:01 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Ncstagger,said...

>I have often wondered a very similar thing...why is it that those currently in control of our energy sources (oil/utility companies) do not pour resources into cornering the market on whatever the next energy source is going to be?

>They certainly know as well as anyone else that the proven oil reserves will be running out soon. Why are they not taking the lead in developing and marketing alternative energy sources and distribution systems?

>Is it because there is no other energy source that can possibly replace oil? Or is it that they know that the next generation of energy sources will not be profitable to sell?

>Or is it something else? <


Unfortunately ... it's the "something else."

31/7/05 3:10 AM  
Anonymous said...

MIDPAC SEZ
Aloha Richard,
Richard said:
<>A lot of this type thing went on in the 1950's -- with "landings" aranged (if you can believe it) over short-wave HAM radio! And, people would show ... and the "craft" would NOT ....
I think you're on to something about the "psy-ops" crowd. Testing your reactions, I would venture a guess ....
The trick with the lights (but NOT the ignition) was cool ....
"Book 'em, Danno!" :)<>

Skipper, thanks for reply! re "psy-ops crowd and testing reactions" Please could you say what you might speculate as to reactions? Such as a debunking flurry, for example?
I think they are still doing the same kind of appearances, maybe more today that back then. Thanks, Aloha, C

31/7/05 3:27 AM  
PIF said...

On Oil:
(The PIF has been for decades extensively involved in this battle - the War on Natural Resource Harvesters - oil producers like miners, loggers, commercial fishermen and farmers are harvesters of natural resources).

Actually the world has a HUGE amount of known oil reserves, it just the Enviro/PC crowd has managed to successfully insert the false dogma that 'there isn't much oil left', while enacting laws/regulations/taxes to prevent more exploration. If all the oil used since the opening of the first field in Penn in the early 1900s were put in one place, it would form a lake about the size and depth of Lake Tahoe. The largest known oil deposit is in the Gulf of Mexico in US waters and is owned by BP, I think, but cannot be developed because of PC restrictions (despite decades of evidence that oil rigs are environmentally good for fish. Anwar holds a conservative 22 billion barrels and potentially much more. Then there are the shale deposits in the western states which hold enough oil for several centuries, add in the Canadian tar sands and shale deposits for still more centuries. Then there is the recently found field - larger than Saudia Arabia's - in Utah/Idaho.

The oil producers know all this, and are holding on because at some point the Enviro/PC crowd will be shoved aside by public demand. There is only one energy source comparable to oil - nuclear. There is no known energy source which even approaches the power output/cost of oil and coal.

Solar: "Each "run-of-the-mill 1,000-megawatt photovoltaic plant will require about 60 square miles of panes alone. In other words, the largest industrial structure ever built."

Wind: "The wind equivalent of a typical utility plant would require 300 square miles of turbines plus costly transmission lines from the wind-scoured fields of, say, North Dakota"

Biomass: "Growing the amount of cellulose required to shift US electricity production to biomass would require farming... an area the size of 10 Iowas."

Hydrogen: Requires more energy than it produces. And is always a potential explosive risk.

Steam: Short of a small portable nuclear reactor, requires more fuel mass than any vehicle could pull at modern speeds and distances.

A new source will only come online if and when there is an actual shortage of oil - like the conversion from whale oil to carbon oil, not before - or because of PC propaganda.

Get it through your heads that Enviro/PC stuff has one aim: to reduce the US to 3rd world status and preferable return to the 14th Century, complete with buffalo herds in the tens of millions roaming the central & western U.S. They - the leaders - are dead set on killing all dreams. To dream is to have hope and a future, anathema to those who wish to control and exert absolute power.

Because of the Enviro/PC crowd, Project Orion was killed and we did not go to Mars in '65 or Saturn in '70. Because of the Enviro/PC crowd, Challenger got rubber O-rings instead of asbestos rings, and 7 died. Because of the Enviro/PC crowd, Columbia got crumbling foam, and 7 died. Because of the Enviro/PC crowd, data found by NASA is withheld and the media and the public loose interest - dreams begin to wither and die.

Enviro/PC crowd (a consensus of like-minded people - not a conspiracy) is very powerful - many leading and well-known politicians, corporate executives, buracrates, trust-funders, billionaires, media tycoons, and NGO collations all support and do everything possible to further their objectives by convincing you that 'there isn't any', 'nothing here', and 'business as usual, contemplate your navel, not the heavens. The more public support for the objective du jour these Enviro/PC guys and gals get, the more expensive becomes food, energy, manufacturing. The more expensive things are, the more time the public has to work. The more time the public has to work, the less time it has to dream. The shallower the dream, the more control and power the Enviro/PC crowd acquires.

Richard is one of the very few people who has a public voice and forum combating them. Yes, he usually focuses on the hard sciences, but in a way which is understandable - a rare talent - and in doing so encourages young and old to look up.

Cry not for new energy sources, nor rail against conspiracies, rather work to expose and eliminate the Enviro/PC agendas, and above all - keep dreaming.
PIF

31/7/05 7:13 AM  
thomas said...

Adieu Richard......

Thanks for posting some of my info & comments....said what I had to say...

Don't overwhelm yourself....& catch up on your sleep!....till' another time...

Best Regards,
Thomas

31/7/05 8:00 AM  
Anonymous said...

One energy alternative.

http://www.stirlingenergy.com

" How much power does one of these Stirling dishes produce?
One dish on an annual basis can produce 60,000 kWh of electricity. Put another way, a solar dish farm of 10.8 sq. miles could produce 2,100 MW of electricity annually – as much as the Hoover Dam, which uses 247 sq. miles of land (including Lake Mead)."

31/7/05 8:10 AM  
Anonymous said...

Excellent photos of the shuttle tank foam and the PAL ram on this site. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=16345&rsbci=15260&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400

31/7/05 8:23 AM  
IonTruO2 said...

Hello Richard,
Sensed your fatigue in your earlier comment. Hope you can continue, perhaps with less daily intensity here. I have an off topic question/suggestion for Robin. Might she consider a Blog of her own in her field. I work in "healing" ways and would welcome her contributions. I specialize in Qigong(+) with Guru Grace and understand basic herbal therapies. I am also curious if she feels there is any interest out there for Mullein Flowers?
I have a large source growing natural here this year and pondered gathering it and making it available.

31/7/05 8:41 AM  
IonTruO2 said...

Further note to Richard.
Your Blog colours seem to me to nicely associate with your theme, which is Space(in general). So, stay with it, it stretches the reader to focus and look closer.
As to the unsustainability of the work load for a Blog, might there be someone who could just do the postings input for you? It seems you are already working with this information anyway as your focus, and your trans.mission is valuable and immediately broad reaching and accessable. The comment board at times can spiral away from your daily posted theme, but I for one watch closely for the times you do make reply and add commentary. More than just making activism, there is a coherency beyond mere concensus occurring from this blog like a monopole. Perhaps the comment subjects are not what is ultimately the scholarly value, but what is triggered in our "reception and response"...
A polarizing atunement, that compels others to atonement. You see?

31/7/05 9:05 AM  
MadGenious said...

Richard,
I have one word for you;
2003ub313.
planet # 10.
What does nasa think about that?
Make you want to say "told you so" dosnt it.

31/7/05 9:12 AM  
Anonymous said...

The Maltese government doesn't allow one to use alternate energy - solar in particular - to generate electrical energy. The reason usually given is that the power utility would lose its employees.
We can only put solar panels to heat water, but NOT to generate electricity. It's illegal.
Our country has lots of wind besides sun, but we don't convert the wind to electricity.
Instead we run up a lot of polluting smoke from power stations run by coal...
one of the worst pollutors is the govt hospital chimney too.. which doesn't burn remains of operations at a degree where viruses and other material would die, so we get to inhale the stuff and get sick, a vicious cycle.

I wonder what's going on... not just here but in the whole world..

31/7/05 9:31 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Anonymous said...
Richard: Please save your stubborness for NASA. ... It is NOT "kewl"; it SUCKS.... Why not do your readers a favor and change to light/white background with dark text? 31/7/05 2:35 AM

Anonymous sid...
Richard: about the blog colors. You should be able to easily change your template. If not, your webmaster can do it by just substituting a few HTML color codes in the template. Oh, I forgot, your webmaster also has illusions that black backgrouns and white text makes him "trendy chic kewl". 31/7/05 2:42 AM

I'm generally not one to wade into arguments that aren't mine, but both these comments came from Unregistered 'annonymous' users

Who and what and Where and How and Why did they even bother to contribute???

Contribute?

What did they add to the recovery of the temple 1 spectrograph readings and what insight did they offer to the discovery of Numerology within NASA's programms

When I was blogging to a Non official Jehovah's witness site...

www.jehovahs-witness.com

I was doing so in the full knowledge that Elders and Higehr ranking WatchTower Bible and Tract Society Members were lurking there, trying to mislead people...

Just like here, these annonymous users, snipe from the concealment of the dark and do not offer one credible piece of information...

Why?

Same as in the JW case, it would serve them better if people didn't ask questions or seek the truth that the NEW World Order could be joined, something like this:

Setting the scene...

Bunch of elite powerful individuals sitting around a masonic hall around 90 years ago...

let's put in place a grand plan to rule the world!... (sounds like a plot from pinky and the brain)...

well of course, UFO and all space science cover up's exist, to keep the masses from ever getting hold of the truth before they want us to know!

So keeping to rituals and occult numerology they set in place a plan to invoke God to come back...

Maybe being illuminatied ones, they would think that God would come back and reward them for making their own space program etc...

...them being the 'Elite'...

...leaving us with what?

The coincidences to occult numbering are huge...

Why would a 'Religion' be so closely linked to science in this way?

A SECRET ORDER too!

Why would a Secret order be linked to Science and space?

It's not hard to join the dots, from the Freemasons to the UN to the Goverment to NASA et all Military projects to the ancient nation of israel...

...Both the Israelies and the Freemasons have six pointed symbology...

Five Million Israeli Jews in USA

Five Million Israeli Jews in Israel

Ark of Covenant to be revealed 08/14/05

And the UNITED NATIONS has a replica Ark of the Covenenant...

The Six pointed star is Solomons star, the King that turned away from True worship...

Revelation 5:5 holds the truth about the David and his star...

Joining up the dots...

New World Order?

UN + FreeMasons + WTO + Illuminati + Jewish Israeli Nation...

Revelation makes the point of working out the number 6 6 6 as it is a mans number...

Any doubts on the facts above?

http://numerology-in-goverment-555.blogspot.com/

and

http://jasgrave333.blogspot.com

Keep up the excellent site Richard...

My CCard is ready to organise a Legal Challenge to NASA et all, to deliver the pictures the data and the FACTS...

Morning all

Ranting J aka 'Brian'

PS Yes I did copy the last section from another blog on RCH's website, but it was so pertinent, it seemed to fit here as well:
http://www.enterprisemission.com/weblog/2005/07/deep-impact-desperate-delays-updated.html

31/7/05 9:33 AM  
Oris Bracken said...

What's to hide? I still don't understand why there is a conscious attempt to deceive the public re Tempel 1 data. Though, quite likly, DI was mostly a military exercise designed to notify USA 'enemies' they can not escape our devastating warheads.

Also: --Russia to develop unique spaceships to eXclude tile-chipping accidents!

New vehicle will fly as a capsule the longest part of the journey. The lander's wings will be kept folded and protected by heat insulation. The protective screen will be released during the reentry and the vehicle will fold out the winds to land as an airplane.

Unlike the winged space vehicle, it will have heat insulation built out of heat-resistant alloys. No tiles will be used.

And. thank you pif, for reminding us Alex Sokolov was the first space-hero fatality.

10 10 from room 322

31/7/05 9:33 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

Oris Bracken said...
What's to hide? I still don't understand why there is a conscious attempt to deceive the public re Tempel 1 data. Though, quite likly, DI was mostly a military exercise designed to notify USA 'enemies' they can not escape our devastating warheads.

Also: --Russia to develop unique spaceships to eXclude tile-chipping accidents!

New vehicle will fly as a capsule the longest part of the journey. The lander's wings will be kept folded and protected by heat insulation. The protective screen will be released during the reentry and the vehicle will fold out the winds to land as an airplane.

Unlike the winged space vehicle, it will have heat insulation built out of heat-resistant alloys. No tiles will be used.

And. thank you pif, for reminding us Alex Sokolov was the first space-hero fatality.

10 10 from room 322


OB, this point goes to prove a further point about NASA

*APPARENTLY* NASA Has invested TRILLIONS of Dollars into the space program.

And

The Russians have a solution for the tiles???

Last I remember is that Russia were not as technologically advanced as the Russian program...

...Still the Russians are launching payloads into space...

Tiles are falling of the USA shuttle...

...

Where are those trillion'$ of dollars really?

Where did they really spend them?

What did NASA ACTUALLY Do in the two point five years since the Columbia disaster?

Where is the temple 1 spectrograph data?...

31/7/05 9:42 AM  
PIF said...

Oris Bracken,
Actually Sokolov lived, there was a bit to do with the Chinese getting him returned to the USSR. But, as I said, I believe he currently heads up the Myasischev aircraft factory. I could be wrong on his current position. His father L. Sokolov designed the Mig 17 fighters.

The Russian site does not mention the exact method - tile or non-tile - used, at least I didn't see it on my quick perusal.

New Russian 'shuttle' is called the Kliper, set to fly 2011-12. Info here:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/index.html

The spacecraft will feature combination of thermal protection systems borrowed from the Buran program (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/buran.html) and from the Soyuz spacecraft. Some sections of the thermal protection system, such as nose section with the interface for the emergency escape rocket, would not be reusable.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/kliper.html

31/7/05 10:26 AM  
the old man from scene 24 said...

Problem with the shuttle. Debris sticking out from between... the tiles!

31/7/05 12:18 PM  
Anonymous said...

pif said:

"Cry not for new energy sources, nor rail against conspiracies, rather work to expose and eliminate the Enviro/PC agendas, and above all - keep dreaming."

Get down off your high horse, you are not cute at all.

31/7/05 2:54 PM  
Erik said...

pif,

There is a difference between proven reserves and things like shale, sand, and oil deposits that are difficult to access. These things do exist but currently it is too costly to recover the oil.

Since demand is going to exponentially rise, I guess the plan could be to wait until the easily accessible oil is in short enough supply that the price rises to the point where these other oil sources become economically viable, as well as further exploration being affordable. Or coal could continue to figure in heavily. Certainly developing nations such as China are going to be demanding massive quantities of oil/coal in the near future.

You can call the people who are concerned about pollution wackos if you want to, but the facts are clear that burning fossil fuels is quite detrimental to the environment. Acid rain, photochemical smog, ozone depletion and global warming are not simply pipe dreams cooked up by a liberal left...they are real and are largely products of the burning of fossil fuels. Add to that the environmental degradation associated with large-scale mining operations as well as the problems of burning wood for fuel and it seems clear to me that a more sustainable approach to energy is needed on a global scale.

I just thought the oil companies would want to continue to be the ones that profit from whatever comes next, but it seems they are only concerned with squeezing every last possible dollar out of the current setup, with no thought to the future or to conserving what is currently available.

Petroleum products provide much more than just fuels. They are absolutely essential as solvents/etc in chemical labs, and are vital to the production of many medicines as well as plastics, man-made fibers, etc. Surely we dont want to simply burn up all the "affordable" oil in our Buicks...imagine what the costs of everyday items made from petroleum
products will be once we are down to extracting the oil from shale or extremely deep and hard to access deposits.

31/7/05 3:39 PM  
brian c said...

erik said...

"Petroleum products provide much more than just fuels. They are absolutely essential as solvents/etc in chemical labs, and are vital to the production of many medicines as well as plastics, man-made fibers, etc."


You left off the most important thing... food production. The modern agriculture industry is extraordinarily oil-dependant, from the oil-based fertilizers and pesticides, to the oil powered farm equipment, oil based packaging, and oil based transportation infrastructure. Global food production yields have been propped up, since the "green revolution", by non-renewable fossil fuels. That's the chief concern of Peak Oil, IMHO.

31/7/05 4:28 PM  
brian c said...

Cassini has made some new, quote, "astonishing" findings about one of Saturn's moons:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12258860.htm:
'Saturn's tiny moon Enceladus, long thought to be cold and still, appears to have active ice volcanoes, scientists reported Friday.

A recent flyby of the international Cassini spacecraft found evidence of a huge cloud of water vapor over the moon's south pole and dramatic warm zones of heat leaking out of the icy moon.

[...]

"This is as astonishing as if we'd flown past Earth and found that Antarctica was warmer than the Sahara," John Spencer, a team member of the spacecraft's composite infrared spectrometer, said in a statement.'



I also found this statement particularly relevant to our own vigil for DI spectra:

'An analysis by Cassini's science instruments found that about two-thirds of the atmosphere was water vapor'

WOW! Lookit that! INSTANT compositional details! How long have we been waiting for the same for Deep Impact now?

31/7/05 4:41 PM  
Erik said...

brian c,

A very good point. Petroleum based products are so thoroughly threaded throughout our modern society that it is very difficult to comprehend life without them. When you stop and think about it there is almost no area of life they do not touch.

There are those who would probably say that the answer is to go back to pre-industrial style living, and as romantic as that idea may be, I don't think that is the answer. I refuse to believe there are not other options.

31/7/05 4:42 PM  
Jayson said...

Everyone be sure to catch the Deep Impact SPECIAL on the Discovery Channel.

31/7/05 6:27 PM  
Bradf_nc said...

>The Russians have a solution for the tiles???<
NASA spent millions and millions of dollars developing a "space" ink pen, with ink that would not freeze and that would write in zero gravity. The Russians used pencils.
Regards,Brad

31/7/05 7:22 PM  
PIF said...

>Jayson said...
Everyone be sure to catch the Deep Impact SPECIAL on the Discovery Channel<

Date & Time?

31/7/05 7:34 PM  
raised eyebrow said...

Jayson, pif...

thanks for reminding us about the show, I almost forgot about it :)

31/7/05 7:47 PM  
raised eyebrow said...

Pif, sorry... I thought you'd reminded us too, hehe. It's on at 10pm E/P.

31/7/05 7:51 PM  
PIF said...

Lieutenant Colonel Vladimir Sergeyevich Ilyushin, is the real name of the first man in space - the PIF was wrong - confusing Sokolov wth Sukhoi. But the rest is true. Sorry, my rocking horse wandered.

31/7/05 8:22 PM  
Wayne Davis said...

Well, the Discovery special was rather typical I thought. Lots of human interest, but not much on what we would want to know. They did describe a problem with the mirror though and how well things went.

31/7/05 9:03 PM  
raised eyebrow said...

The show was nearly a joke. Just like all the UFO/alien/conspiracy shows, it left more questions than it answered. I guess it's not too terribly new, though, for a show like this to come out and be behind the times. I mean, we pretty much all knew everything they said and showed. For instance, why have all the suspenseful "what if"s when we already know that it went as planned? Ok, maybe much of the show was produced before impact... still, they had months after the DI launch, if not all the years (since 1999) to produce AND RELEASE it pre-impact. But, I digress.

To play the optimist for a second, maybe it will (re)impress the mission on the conscious of more people. Then again, maybe it won't because the show never even approached (at the end of the program, or anywhere else for that matter) the issue of the data collected, all while "safely assuming" that we know "know" what comets are made of AND... that we now somehow "know" how to avert a future Earth/comet impact. WTF?

31/7/05 9:15 PM  
PIF said...

Deep Impact Program repeats Tue at 9PM.

Supervolcano on now much more interesting. Except for the Brokaw commentary. Gotta love that Yellowstone Supervolcano. Wonder if anybody will do the same for the Supervolcano at Elk Horn ND? Even bigger.

31/7/05 9:16 PM  
raised eyebrow said...

Oh, it'll be on again Tuesday @ 9pm (E/P?) for anyone who missed it. I'll leave any technical matters regarding the show in the far more capable hands of fellow posters :)

31/7/05 9:19 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Darn,

We were out tonight (first time in a LONG time -- finally catching "Hitchikers Guide ..."), and set the machine to tape the Tempel 1 Discovery Special.

So, I shouldn't waste my time watching it now ...? :)

1/8/05 12:16 AM  
Dave said...

Just watched the DISCOVERY CHANNEL DI show. I don't understand how with that many people involved, there could be a conspiracy to cover up the data returned. It also explains why Richard may indeed be recieving Deep Throat info. I mean, SOMEONE on the team has to be an honest scientist who isn't willing to play ball. Are you going to tell me they signed Secrecy Oaths concerning data from a comet?

Also, I didn't hear any specific mention of a spectrometer, just that we'd get compositional data.

Did you catch the astronomer at the end who said "We're made of water, we're made of comets!" Obviously, at that point the data hadn't been analyzed, but he sounded confident that comets contain lots of water ice, despite the other comet nucleus they were able to image, which showed a similar rocky surface (I forget the name).

1/8/05 12:21 AM  
Dave said...

Here's a really good article from Catherine Austin Fitts (Former Assistant Secretary of Housing (1st Bush Administration) which touches on many of the things we discuss here...

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0209/S00126.htm

I promise it's worth your time.

1/8/05 12:37 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Dave,

>Here's a really good article from Catherine Austin Fitts (Former Assistant Secretary of Housing (1st Bush Administration) which touches on many of the things we discuss here...

>http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0209/S00126.htm

>I promise it's worth your time.<


The Discover Special on Tempel 1 ... or, the article by Fitts?

I heard her interviewed about a year ago by George Noory. VERY interesting ....

1/8/05 12:53 AM  
Dave said...

>The Discover Special on Tempel 1 ... or, the article by Fitts?<

Article by Fitts! The Discovery show was slightly interesting, but no real surprises.

1/8/05 1:05 AM  
MadGenious said...

what about the tenth planet?????????

1/8/05 1:28 AM  
raised eyebrow said...

Richard,

>So, I shouldn't waste my time watching it now ...?<

I can't (nor would I) say if it would be of any interest to you. You have a far better understanding of the inner workings of these things than I do. You may laugh all the way through it or find some ammunition or... well, only you know. It was nice eye-candy at least :) I say, when in doubt, check it out.

Regarding my earlier comments... I guess I should clarify that IF the ENTIRE show had been produced pre-impact, then it would go without saying that the non-image data (spectrometer and anything else) would not be included in the dialog. By that same token, one can see how scientists would draw upon pre-conceived hypothesis of what comets are made of and such. However, IMO, the fact that they showed the actual impact image animation and photos, leads me to believe that they could have put some focus on the post-impact, such as conjecture over what we might expect to learn in the near term, what NASA might have in store for us, some sort of "stay tuned" message (as our host is perceptive enough to give us). Granted, Discovery probably doesn't know anymore about post-impact than the rest of the [non-NASA] world, but aren't these channels usually good at speculation anyways (often just to try and scare people with twisted and spun buzz words)? Instead, I feel they left us with the same "game over" sentiment as NASA. "b-deep, b-deep, that's all, folks!"

1/8/05 1:38 AM  
Viola Riviniana said...

Maybe I didn't read/explore the other link thoroughly enough, but is openly addressing this presence inadvisable for some reason?

1/8/05 1:44 AM  
Anonymous said...

Go over to White Text on Black bacground
This is not cool!!!

1/8/05 1:56 AM  
brian c said...

Bradf_nc said...
"NASA spent millions and millions of dollars developing a "space" ink pen, with ink that would not freeze and that would write in zero gravity. The Russians used pencils."

This is just an urban legend... I shared this earlier (actually in this same thread):
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

(Short version: NASA had nothing to do with the development of the spacepen, and used pencils at first too)

1/8/05 2:27 AM  
Anonymous said...

Stay tuned :)

1/8/05 2:59 AM  
cryptosemiotician said...

When one of the Predatory Cultures - aka Colonial Powers - encounters a new civilization on an island, or on the tundra, it's a big country squashing a little country. Life is good and artists are on the beach painting flora, fauna and topless island women.

On the other hand, when Great Britain encounters India or China - a larger country, there's a totally different narration. It's far more dangerous with a risk that the Royal Navy might be pursued all the way home to Britain.

When countries go exploring, they are looking for information beyond the known world - usually in the context of Imperialism and expansion, which is a mind-set.

With in-coming information, the key is timing and controlling the reaction of the man in the street. Sometimes the only discretionary control is when, where and how the information is released.

Other opportunities to speak to history is control over when the mission reaches its destination, where it goes etc.

There was strict control over how the home country's power was projected overseas. There was control over how the two countries would interact. there was also control over how the world was projected to the commoner.

Just because Tempel I is a comet, doesn't mean it cant be dressed up as a national security issue, or dangerous because it poses a 'threat' to public opinion.

Exploration is busy work for an Empire - something done voluntarily, so the knowledge it produces is treated like propaganda.

Most of us don't think the truth to be subversive, nor a National Security issue. We also don't think that any information would turn us into a threat ... but here we are :-)

1/8/05 4:12 AM  
Bradf_nc said...

Brian,
Thank you..I guess I cant believe everything that i read on the internet.
Regards,Brad

1/8/05 6:18 AM  
TempleMaster333 said...

Richard,
Last night Art Bell interviewed Major Ed Dame, since recent events with the shuttle seem to support his "remote viewing" predictions. He claims that he viewed a forced landing for the shuttle (actually, he said he gives the astronauts about a 15% chance of making it back - wonder if he has the guts to get on the radio and tell them that himself ?) Anyway, a failed shuttle mission is supposed to portend a series of massive solar flares of sufficient intensity to turn the Earth into a rotiserie with us being the roasts. Survivors will have to live in caves to escape hot, 300 mph winds.
Dame has apparently had a more recent vision that the worst may not be for a year or two when the geomagnetic field finally drops to 0.
Now, Art is generally a pretty good guy, but ever since 911 I have tuned my olfactory senses to sniff out NEOCONS and I have to say that very often I get a whiff of that sort from Art and his guests. Is it possible for the Sun to create solar flares with that kind of destructive power at the distance of the Earth, or is this more disinformation from "Dr. Doom"? (This guy has also previously said that he and his RV team tagged the BTK serial Killer !)

1/8/05 7:43 AM  
cryptosemiotician said...

Someone should let Major Ed Dames in on what we all learned in high school.
Remote viewing will make you go blind !!!

1/8/05 8:00 AM  
the old man from scene 24 said...

Hey, I know Catherine Austin Fitts! Had lunch with her a few years ago. She's doing good work.

1/8/05 8:23 AM  
jasgrave333 said...

TM333...

" Survivors will have to live in caves to escape hot, 300 mph winds."

actually, I dont subscribe to the RV stuff myself... not into demonology etc... (IMHO)

BUT

You raise that interesting aspect of a part of prophecy, in that dusty old book the bible...

Intensely hot anyone?

2 Peter 3 : 10 - 13

10 Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered.

11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought YOU to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion,

***********
12 awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements being intensely hot will melt!
***********

13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

I'm no expert, but hmmm

12 month for us is December...

Another coincidence is this

The tenth Month in the Jewish Calender is Tammuz or July...

...July is our Seventh Month...

...Tammuz is July but the 10th month to the Jewish culture.

mentioned that because of the recurrence of 10 in prophecy and Seven...

Intensely hot eh?

Heatwave in the USA too...

Right now hottest on Recorded history in Las Vegas...

Good points TM333

J aka 'Brian'

1/8/05 9:13 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

MadGenious,

>What about the tenth planet?????????<

I've already made some comments about that ... somewhere here ... but I'll be doing an entire "Captain's Blog" on the subject -- as soon as these NASA problems with Discovery are resolved.

1/8/05 9:27 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

TempleMaster333,

>Last night Art Bell interviewed Major Ed Dame, since recent events with the shuttle seem to support his "remote viewing" predictions. He claims that he viewed a forced landing for the shuttle (actually, he said he gives the astronauts about a 15% chance of making it back - wonder if he has the guts to get on the radio and tell them that himself ?) Anyway, a failed shuttle mission is supposed to portend a series of massive solar flares of sufficient intensity to turn the Earth into a rotiserie with us being the roasts. Survivors will have to live in caves to escape hot, 300 mph winds.
Dame has apparently had a more recent vision that the worst may not be for a year or two when the geomagnetic field finally drops to 0.
Now, Art is generally a pretty good guy, but ever since 911 I have tuned my olfactory senses to sniff out NEOCONS and I have to say that very often I get a whiff of that sort from Art and his guests. Is it possible for the Sun to create solar flares with that kind of destructive power at the distance of the Earth, or is this more disinformation from "Dr. Doom"? (This guy has also previously said that he and his RV team tagged the BTK serial Killer !)<


Remember who Ed Dames was/is FIRST AND FOREMOST: Military Intelligence.

If he's publicly "predicting" only a 15% chance for a successful reentry by Discovery (!), it makes it IMPERATIVE that everyone here read our latest "Captain's Blog" -- posted this morning.

This is getting sickening.

1/8/05 9:40 AM  
Sir Not Appearing in this Picture said...

Sickening is right.

Ok, time for my journey into la-la land. I don't often talk about this, but I suppose now is a good time.

I have had three shuttle disaster dreams over the years. In the first one, while I was still in high school, I dreamed that a shuttle went off course during launch and crashed into an elementary school. Years later, Challenger exploded with an elementary school teacher aboard.

A few years after that, I had a dream where the shuttle crashed into a white building surrounded by scaffolding. Strangely, I was driving by just such a building when I heard that they had lost contact with Columbia.

But even before Columbia, I had a third dream. In this dream, I was standing at the end of a runway and a shuttle was coming in for a landing. Instead, it crashed, and flaming debris flew all around me.

Don't know what this signifies, only reporting.

1/8/05 12:04 PM  
blasted said...

methinks Dames is STILL Mil-Intel..
and this appears to be a self fullfilling prophecy scenario to me.. just furthering the agenda..

Some time ago.. Major Dames 'saw' the killshot etc.. a precurser was a shuttle(?) being taken out by meteor shower(s) and huge solar flaring and such..

Seen the nutso sun lately??

I also seem to recall a similar 'prophecy' re:ISS coming down, don't remember who that was..

Saw this today at mcanney's site:
"The people who are in dire danger now are the astronauts on the space station with a crippled shuttle. Couple this with the 3 upcoming meteor streams of early august ( the two branches of the Aquarids and then the August 12 Perseids) ... i cannot imagine why NASA was so pressed to send the astronauts into space at this time. What was the big hurry? (Were the aerospace corps demanding a launch so they could get back to business as usual or was there another deeper reason??? as in an incoming celestial object???)."

Also the plan does sound plausible. keep the crew on ISS for now.
Blow shuttle on the way down, push the agenda.. the prime directive.

Resistance is futile... you will be assimilated.

1/8/05 3:03 PM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

Blasted,

>Methinks Dames is STILL Mil-Intel ....<


Of course.

>And this appears to be a self- fullfilling-prophecy scenario to me ... just furthering the Agenda ....<


My point -- EXACTLY.

1/8/05 4:33 PM  
Blasted said...

If thats truly the case, then this scenario has been planned for quite awhile..

or was Dames "killshot" crap an ace in the hole so to speak, for just such a time, if needed?

jeez. I just cant believe this could be happening. I've been following the program since sputnik for christ sake...

what a sad, sad, state of affairs for humanity.

God speed, Discovery.

1/8/05 4:53 PM  
cryptosemiotician said...

We should never forget to draw distinctions between the bravery of the real explorers and the finesse of the spin doctors that release their science.

The NSA and CIA are parallel institutions to the 19th century Black Chambers of Europe. Their purpose is to create an intellectual apartheid - a small percentage of controllable "knowers" is the modern priesthood. The vast majority are supposed to be believers.

Of course, we are conditioned to believe that it is normal for representative democracy to have Agencies of the Government communicating over the heads of the unwashed masses. We acquiesce. The question becomes : who are they communicating with ?

http://www.nsa.gov/kids/ciphers/images/image00004.gif
http://www.monticello.org/reports/interests/zoom/disassembled_wheel.html

Exploration is "busy work" for an Empire - and something the Empire does voluntarily should compliment, but NEVER be allowed to undermine the status quo.

Consider precessional science.

If it were revealed to be inevitable, or a potential problem, that threatens to change the priorities of the masses, who might stop watching Entertainment Tonight.

The alarmist will say that people will leave cities and drive up the price of caves. The moderate says there would be a stampede of scientists going into the field. Meanwhile, even the cynic has to admit that an external threat to Earth spells the end of wasteful or masturbatory NASA missions.

Missions to reinforce the status quo, or to confound the masses would take a back-seat to Missions to avoid extinction.

It would no longer be feasible to justifying a system that supports a leisure class ... like capitalism.

http://elonka.com/kryptos/sanborn/slides/images/WealthOfNations.jpg

The NSA and CIA have their own version of history, which offers some clues about how their shadow side sees the world. Same modus operandi : hiding in plain sight.

If there is interference in the Space Agency, you need look no further than the hidden hand of capitalism. The CIA and NSA took over a job previously held by Wall Street PR firms during the Gilded Age.

1/8/05 10:55 PM  
TIM BROOKS said...

NASA trying to ground the Shuttle, GOOD!
Now, I hope that the people on the Shuttle make it home safe, but if the Shuttle gets the ax after that, Great, that is what NASA needs. I'm 28 years old and for as long as I can remember NASA has been flying that Shuttle. What happen to good old American engineering and the spirit of exploration. That Shuttle should have retired 10 years ago. We should have been to Mars by now and beyond, but for some reason (maybe aliens if you keep up with this site) NASA has done nothing after the Moon. Yea, they put some satellites in space and send probes off, but that is it. What kind of nation are we, or what kind of race are we if we don't strive for more. If NASA need an excuse to build the next Shuttle then fine let them have there excuse. I just hope that they build the next one with some of the tech there are playing with at the advance propulsion labs. I know that it is not possible ,but I wish NASA pull some stuff off the black shelf, and O-yea there is a black shelf. Just ask Richard C. how Edward Leedskalnin built the Coral Castle. By the way where is the update on the Coral Castle? Anyway to a long story short ground the Shuttle and build something worthwild.

2/8/05 8:40 AM  
Richard C. Hoagland said...

TIM BROOKS,

>NASA trying to ground the Shuttle, GOOD!

>Now, I hope that the people on the Shuttle make it home safe, but if the Shuttle gets the ax after that, Great, that is what NASA needs. I'm 28 years old and for as long as I can remember NASA has been flying that Shuttle. What happen to good old American engineering and the spirit of exploration. That Shuttle should have retired 10 years ago. We should have been to Mars by now and beyond, but for some reason (maybe aliens if you keep up with this site) NASA has done nothing after the Moon. Yea, they put some satellites in space and send probes off, but that is it. What kind of nation are we, or what kind of race are we if we don't strive for more. If NASA need an excuse to build the next Shuttle then fine let them have there excuse. I just hope that they build the next one with some of the tech there are playing with at the advance propulsion labs. I know that it is not possible ,but I wish NASA pull some stuff off the black shelf, and O-yea there is a black shelf. Just ask Richard C. how Edward Leedskalnin built the Coral Castle. By the way where is the update on the Coral Castle? Anyway to a long story short ground the Shuttle and build something worthwild [sic].<

Tim,

It is ALL in HOW this critical technological transition to the NEXT space vehicle is accomplished.

There is an old, extremely worthwhile saying: "The End Does NOT Justify the Means ..."

NASA should simply tell the American people and the Congress that the Shuttle -- even after all this effort -- is no longer fit to fly with human crews .... That the CEV is desperately needed to keep the United States foremost in space exploration. It should then take the money currently appropriated for Shuttle operations and transfer it to developing a new vehicle -- the CEV -- on as fast a track as possible (which is really ONLY limited by money!).

To conduct this "sneaky" exposure of all the Shuttle's flaws, via NASA's new "let it all hang out" highly transparent public campaign -- to demonstrate to everyone the "incredible efforts which must be expended just to return the crews to Earth safely" -- is, in my view, just political cowardice. It ALSO leaves room for precisely the kind of "mischief" I discuss at the end of my latest piece ....

Why the Administration feels this must be done is puzzling. Given the degree of support -- in the Congress and in the Country, for the President's "New Vision for Space exploration" -- why he simply can't go to the American people and tell them that "it's no longer safe to fly the Shuttle as it is" ... is THE major mystery right now.

Hopefully, there will NOT be a new, MAJOR tragic accident to underscore these crucial questions re this Mission ....

2/8/05 6:23 PM  
crypt0 said...

To get the Black Ops folks to share what they've kept for themselves ... let's cut out the middleman (abolish black ops) and just go offer Wall Street a